so can we start with just having you
state your name and where and when you
were born
okay i have them in the restara i have
to see here no no you can look at us
yeah i am in a rosarito and i was born
in a cigar prefecture in in japan
october 1st 1953 there were now
i am 58 okay almost
60. yeah okay um and can you tell us a
little bit about your early education
and how you got to undergraduate how you
decided what to study
okay okay so there's a typical uh
story about my education i just
i was born in singapore fracture a
mockery
nagahama city and i went to the
elementary school
six years there and junior high school
just
one year because my father was
employee of the uh jl were at that time
jnr japan national railroad
and his area was from
a little bit southern of the nagano city
to the north part of the japan
and he he got uh you know
he moved he
okay our family moved to the uh term
prefecture
then i spent two years junior high
school
there and when i
uh entered high school
again my father moved to another place
but at that time my brother uh older
brother c universal
is the six year uh three years of
difference
and when i entered the high school also
he entered a university
and at that time in japan the very
famous one
is examination of university of tokyo
was cancelled due to the movement of the
student movement against the university
this affects everything it's many many
students
so my my brother entered the thurman
university at the local university
so he stayed in the thermal state of
term
i was billionaire and then i
i proposed to stay with him because
i entered in a very famous high school
called a very very high rank
to to go to the very famous university
in japan
then i decided to stay with him
uh but apart from the order my father
and my family
and spent three years there so when i
was
a high school student i just imagined
okay i'm maybe i am a work as an
engineer
or a scientific or engineering scientist
not the regional generation
and i spent three years and
my school high school uh decided the
direction which university you can go or
something something
and i decided to enter the oscar
university
when i was 18 and
control engineering at that time i just
hesitated to control engineering
or information engineering the country
engineering just
mainly controls the object of something
including robots the information
engineering the computer science
and so on so ai and so on so
i entered controlled engineering and
spent four years in the undergraduate
and when i
choose the
which level of the lead so usually our
department
consists of at that time maybe five or
six
laboratories so each laboratory consists
of the full professor
the associate professor and the team
research assistant
two research assistants so and
one more thing i have to say that i got
married when
i was undergraduate somehow
and or more correctly
you know in japan many high school
students
spent much time to training of the
entertainer
university therefore what if
once i entered the university that's all
my freedom or something
so i spent i i i didn't when i didn't go
to the
university i didn't attend classes but
maybe
uh something
i think so i spent one more year
in undergraduate so i spent five years
when i got married so uh
okay i i i suppose that myself
should go to the industry because i got
married and also the baby and so on
but my wife told me that
if you go to the industry
not for yourself but
me that is my wife and my baby please do
not do that please choose your way as
you like
otherwise my wife says i
don't like to be as a uh
in the world if i enter in
the industry without my
will not my oil so maybe i regret myself
or something
so she doesn't like such a situation
therefore please choose
your way and then i decided okay i go to
the
uh the laboratory and i'd like to be the
researcher
to do something and when i decided the
laboratory
i just decided to observe a computer
vision
well at that time the pattern
regulations
so uh the rough idea of my own and that
of course i like maybe i
my way just engineering or science on
something
and not simply you know enduring but
more deeply i like to know what humans
are
therefore i'm just very interested in
the pattern recognition
how the machine recognized the object
or some something and then i entered
into
the laboratory that's what the professor
sable sushi
he was famous in japan and the computer
vision
world patent regulation area and
i spent totally five years
in the vision computer vision and robot
division and
my work my phd thesis is
how to reconstruct the 3d structure
from the image sequence to the image
sequence and at that time
some guy proposed some very simple idea
of the 3d reconstruction from 2d image
i just followed and i my main focus
of the thesis was how to represent
the 3d movement of the object mainly
maybe the robots and so on
that was uh my phd testis and
at that time so i spent five years uh
the master course three at two years
and uh doctor ghost did picture three
years
first two years just mainly focusing on
the image processing
so as image tracking of the fish which
the swimming
and then tracking the the object and so
on
and then the three years in the phd
course
i shifted more robotics so the mobile
robot
so they captured the image of the
sequence of the indoor on someone
and then we reconstruct the map the
structure of
something something and that's just
related to the robot vision and the
computer vision and so on
after i finished the phd course i
continued my work out
with my students and my professors are
the professors the supervisor
our iowa student at anyhow so
we have been doing the uh the threes of
the at the work
studies of the mobile robotics mobile
robots with vision and so on
and when i was i got exactly
maybe 33 yes
1986 i was born in 1953 98
oh yeah so the 32 was 33 or something
okay
when i was 32 uh i was
asked to going abroad because you know
at that time
it's kind of sabbatical wave so
maybe one year or something and
i i try to visit the state
in the united states somewhere uh
you know with the mit or the stanford or
cmu and so on
and finally i decided to
visit university of maryland near
washington dc
and stay one year two months ten days
that's uh early days of my research work
um could you tell us who you mentioned
that somebody
was already doing when you just started
doing your computer vision work
um you mentioned that a guy
do you remember who the guy was
uh simon or uh
okay i forgot yeah
very famous guy uh he published a book
david maher no no david is so famous
of course i respect him and after him
simon
sorry i i can yeah i can okay
we can yes also i forgot the title exact
title but
i just say the 3d structure from motion
was really a structure for motion
something like that
that's a very simple idea of how many
points
are sufficient to reconstruct how many
points and how many images
necessary to reconstruct the 3d
structure of the three points or four
points and so on
um and you mentioned that then you
started working with the mobile robots
yes
um what were some of the you know
reasons that people were using mobile
robots in your lab
okay the idea that at that time
so of course you know very poor about
the memory
and the cpu and everything
so word just image processing for the
still
image is one of the big topic and image
sequence is
another one for example at that time i
suppose maybe the image consists of
128 128 or something and every uh
30 frames per second something like that
so
it's kind of a challenge so when i was
domestical students i just
finished tracking right it's a very very
simple image processing but
tracking something so the more challenge
is you know analyze some image sequence
like humans in the working and so on
therefore the mobile robots is another
big challenge at that time
and then okay so take the pictures first
and then analyze
the image of the image sequence that's
kind of big challenge at that time
still the very poor memory poor
processing
power and so on so the robot would
basically take a sequence of
pictures that you would be yeah yeah
so the uh so there are several ways to
analyze the image sequence
and our case is just the camera is
moving along like
this one therefore pick up some image
features
vertical lines and how these blinds are
at the mobile and the image and then
reconstruct the 3d points
or the structure of the in
the corridor and so on
did the answer to the question yes yes
he was going to ask something
oh so who are you working with in
maryland and what kind of
research we have okay as well
rosenfeld and uh
uh oh forgot i remembered his face
but i forgot his name rosenfeld
and as a very famous guy of image
processing
rosenfeld adrian rosenfeld is very
famous as god of image processing
he published the image process in the
book with and
sorry i'll tell you later no problem
what kind of research were you doing
oh yeah at that time okay so before i
visit there i have danced a work of the
mobile robots
so in the in the united states and
university maryland uh see for a center
for automation research
they go to the match funding from darpa
so there are
uh alv project
autonomous land uh landfill autonomous
autumns land pickle
that is automatically controlled by the
the computer and so on
so the i continued some image processing
and other outdoor
and also uh it's a range image
so uh at that time also
uh universal mainland and also cmu the
carnegie mellon
and some some very famous university
institute
they have started some of the or the the
similar
work it's airway and also
one of the issues that the laser scanner
a rangefinder and started to be used
so we suppose they involved some launch
image
and the video image together and analyze
the structure of the environment
that's the main topic of the uh the
when i was in a c4 in the university of
maryland
and what was some of the other work that
people were doing there
oh it's mainly the image process there
are many many many image processing
issues for example or
some image legislation the database
or a 3d structural motion
one of the guys at that time the young
researcher
was ian alimonos
he's a greek guy he attended all the
same conference this one
he proposed active vision
yeah so uh and he has
published many papers about active
vision
mainly from the theoretical viewpoint
and
reconstructions or any other things or
something something
anyhow the point is active that is the
observer
moving intentionally that's idea
i suppose maybe such idea is very close
to the robotics
the robots actively capture the image
and if the robot has some disambiguity
so the robot try to observe more or
different viewpoints or maybe we can
touch or something
therefore the concept of active vision
or active perception
is a very close idea of the robotics
itself
did that have any influence on your work
um
and uh janice's work yeah yeah
yes i think so yeah yeah we have
discussed many times and uh
yeah his standing point is he's a kind
of a therapist
so uh he all the time he claims a
theory theory thoroughly my portion is
much more not so really practical but
the real sensors
image and so on so what we discussed
and we add actually we
we didn't have any papers with
co-authors
that discussed all the time
there were maybe i i clutched his name
in acknowledgement
my paper were there some other people
that you
spoke to often there or who had an
influence on the way you thought about
decision problems
i i just i remember raleigh davis ashley
rosenfeld
the the head and the sub head is raleigh
davis
so of course we discussed or at that
time my english skill
was poor therefore all the time they
checked the english
and uh janice alloy moss yeah all the
time we discussed
any other guy
we have many many researchers from
around the world
and we discussed the management issues
but mainly
i think i sold by myself
and then
exchanged the opinions and so on
so yeah israel rosenfeld is a good
academic processing
relatives all the time checking my
english yes
a lot of time discussions and so on
yeah when i was in the united states
these three guys
developing pressure for my walk yeah
and was rosenfeld basically the reason
that you decided to go to maryland
rather than some of these other places
you visited
at that time uh one of my friends
in kyoto university he was kent
university he
visited there two years before my visit
and he recommended uh the apartment
and any kind of thing so for me it's
much easier
to move and so on and more collectively
uh
takashi matsuyama the professor at the
guild university he stayed one year
before me two years ago one ego just the
professor uh
kanatani in the guma university
he also successor of the this guy
so the it's a furniture or something
something the same
apartment and then also i'm same
apartment it's very smooth
therefore when i visited the united
states
he already set up my apartment
towards my family at that time i took my
my wife and to my son's
[ __ ] poor family it's misery movies
yeah of course i tried to the mit and
stafford but
maybe uh i forgot the detail that maybe
i could not
i was not accepted by them
and so um do you have anything to ask
about marilyn
not about marijuana no i was just gonna
ask what do you consider your first real
robotic project to be
um it's it's difficult to uh define
what's a robotics so when i was a
phd core student i already started some
kind of
image processing of the local division
system so this is part of the robotics
but much more robux for me is
much much brighter so okay
when i was in the united states
my wife and to my kids really enjoyed
the u.s life so
they asked him is there a possibility to
continue more
or to stay than less so at that time i
got to the job interview
inside the university maryland the
electrical engineering department
and before i'll leave you know so it's
very very close so i got the interview
with
one two three or four professors
and after i
i left i got some message of the
interview
but when i returned to the oscar
university
my supervisor when i was student he
decided
my passion to move promote same
university but
different campus and different uh the
department
my collector is a mechanical engineering
so i hasted
go to the united states or stay or
something
and my decision was that okay if i have
a chance in the
decision okay i will have more more
times to go to the united states
okay then i stay one or two years here
first and then decide
but actually i couldn't do that anyhow
so
when i work when i returned in the
united states i was
the research assistant and i was
promoted to the lecturer first
and one year later the associate
professor with
professor yoshi he's a very very famous
guy of the computer vision too
so i started continues the vision work
with him 8889 91
yes i think so three years
and i i i was
telling him that i like to be promoted
to the as a phrases in five years
in five years so after three years
i just started to
my promotion and i told him
okay i tried to start
so the something happened that so
uh the professors of the department of
mechanical engineering
the many professors totally 18
is actually the group of the three
departments
of the mechanical engineering so uh
these professions like me liked me to
stay
that means there were there is one empty
space one professor to be filled
so these professors asked me
to stay and then be the professor over
here
when i was at the time 38 or something
is that correct okay i think so
86 86 34 86
85 90 90 is
37 yes yes that's right
37 on 78 the the age 37 on 38
is too early in japan to be professor
therefore
still the associate professor but i have
one space for the whole professor
associate professor and two research
associates
so that's a new stage for me
so uh that's a time
i started to new idea of the robotics
that time i really you know myself i'm
very very confident about the time it's
just time
for myself to start our bl robotics
so that was the 7780s who were the
professors that wanted you to
stay professional oh the professors that
you said
there were a few professors that really
wanted you to stay
who were they oh it's a professor of
mechanical department mechanical
engineering so not my own area but
the dynamic fluid dynamics
thermodynamics
the material science and so on so
completely different
but somehow the very complicated reasons
because you know uh of course you know
at that time i didn't realize that
my achievement is so excellent i i
actually i did not have any idea about
my own
but just a research to the publisher
paper and so on
but this guy is supposed that okay this
guy is very excellent
so we decided to stay you know like
ask him to stay here or something
another reason is i was
okay i graduated oscar university in the
master course and there was a piece of
course
that they like to another reason that i
like to be the professor of the
graduate the same university because
actually there are some
five professors they want the department
to come from the other universities
so that's the kind of the old politics
of the university
but i didn't care anything such things
nothing
i i can be anywhere if i can do my
research right
so i stayed at this uh
the same university and
one laboratory i can control everything
that time
is uh most you know the happiest time
for me
because once you promote a full
professor
so many meetings and
other issues so i could not spend i
can't spend
much time with the research okay
that's good so you were mentioning in
your new position
you could really start focusing and
working on robotics
yeah and what made you decide to turn to
robotics so that's that's the point
that's the point
so uh okay so japan we have many
japanese european researchers
and many of them they're doing the very
in some sense very classical the
standard the very popular robotics
researches
one of the idea is that the machine
learning
so uh okay let me start
today okay okay i
i moved the associated professor but
moved
the new laboratory and we're thinking
about the new ideas
therefore uh we had many many
meetings with not my own
laboratory but also were other people
so were at that time professor
sablatsuji he was my supervisor
that he collected many members of their
my own and others and so on and we
started some kind of the
uh i'll just say introduction of the
book
submission learning or the law of
learning and so
one topic is reinforcement learning and
especially focus on the many theoretical
issues and so on
i got the idea okay we should utilize
this you know the rehearsal learning and
we studied about the it was learning
again like again and again
okay so it's a new topic or new idea
is so because before myself
many people study about not so many but
some guys study all they studied about
various learning
and so on but not so real application to
the robots
because the reef smelling is very very
attractive
but so many trials it's kind of almost
exhaustive search
they're not suitable for the robots
because many tries means
you know easy to program something
something so
we started about what kind of earlier
suitable to the real learning and that
time
my students that the new uh canoe
laboratory new cameras
so uh i spent much time with them and we
discussed
what get one of the guy one of the
students uh
proposed the tennis robots there's some
kind of sports
or tennis is so so difficult okay okay
okay
okay so please keep him in your mind so
another guy
says how about the sucker psychology
okay also sakai is also very very
complicated very very hard but that is
simple
you know just chasing the ball and
shooting the ball to the goal
if so just one mobile robot that's kind
of cycle
so we started about the applied legal
money
to the cycle loads and also this is the
same
period of starting the idea of the
robocop
that's you know one of the biggest of
my life work okay so that time to 1992
one yeah 1992 or 1993
and the two things two big things for me
and that's okay uh okay we have already
started about
some studied the work of the levels of
learning applying to
the sakura robots another thing is that
uh doctor
he's the guy of the co-founder of the
you know logo
and at that time he collected the the
researchers
to start a new project from japan
because you know he is guy of the ai
okay and
in the ai fields the many different
researchers just follow the ai work in
the united states
so he likes to promote some original
idea of the ai or something so he
held some workshops several workshops
about the new challenge
the grand challenge so one of the grand
challenges we discussed is idea of the
lumuca at that time
so that's a big idea and he promoted
he collected the young guys and
discussed how to
promote the local cup idea and also he
connected
his collection of the people outside
japan
and then we started something something
so that's a big issue one the another
one is that
1993 icle conference
20 years ago almost next year
yeah yeah we submit the first paper
from my lab about the application of the
lives of learning to the circle robot
we submitted yes yes we started the
research and
finished 93 and summed the paper for
yeah sorry 94 like a conference
paper was rejected
so that's a in a way so the libya says
it's very interesting or something
something something
so my paper was rejected
so i disappointed so disappointed
because
this is a very new area it's a very nice
one
so i i was confident that this paper
should be so i know
accepted and i have a chance to give my
talk something
but that's a big conference even though
this time it was a big conference
and the conference kind of gambled okay
so the vendor the reviewers
so what's kind of gambling so i decided
i just appointed
this kind of a huge conference and then
i sent the paper to the very very small
workshop
so i sent the paper to the machine
learning workshop
or icml the internet conference of
machine learning
and there are series of the workshops
the robot learning or something
i submitted the paper and accepted i
gave my talk
so angular researchers machine learning
area or the robotics area
and they so were you know impressed by
my work
and also i was directed okay so my
workers evaluated as many people
and that's a very strong very lesser
motivation okay i can do that to do that
yeah the next year i sent
the same paper exactly the same paper to
the icon conference
next year 1995. so my paper
was elected one of the best papers
unfortunately i i could not get the best
paper just one
but uh nominations okay so at that time
almost one thousand paper submission
the final recipe the ten papers that one
percent
so my paper was elected so that's
another evidence of the gamble
exactly same paper nothing changed
the previous year rejected next year the
finalist
so big difference so okay it's confused
example or something so
then i started the service of the
equation learning and also
i started the logout activities so
we discussed started
the lobocap idea and we set up the first
robocup
in 1997 at the hki conference igcih
conference in conjunction with hq
conference 1997
because it was held in nagoya in japan
so we set up 97 and then
at that time we have four years because
we started decide to
hold the first level of 1997 uh the four
years before
1993 and we started the discussion on
someone
so uh and hira kitano mentioned that
because 1993 is the first year of the uh
in japan professional uh
soccer league so uh
just we say jaylee javance japanese
league or something
so hilarious mentioned okay robot to
jail again
that you know members outside japan
yj why and then
okay i have an idea robocop it's the
level world cup it's a love cup
so the naming so uh actually yeah i
forgot
anywhere i i invented this name or not
but anyhow
myself yeah so i started the local cup
activities and there was a rewards
learning staff and so the boss
and so on so the early days so my work
of the live learning is directly
related link to the in the world the
logo cup so
my students do some work and the
research and then at the same time
do the robo cup and so on at that time
the middle size league the mobile robots
are going around something who's manuela
both then okay yeah let me continue that
yeah so uh as i mentioned
connected to the south outside japan one
of the
researchers at the manila but also and
also
i forgot exactly those guys but
most influential is vulnerable also and
also
peter stone her student okay
so before the first logo of 1997
we held the playlock up 1996
and 1996 i was the general chair of the
islands not the icon but ios conference
and i have
any right to do everything therefore
i said that the player robocop 1996
and at that time the manual barroso and
maybe peter stone maybe came
to us and uh they
participated uh okay in the playoff
cup we have some competition of the
simulation league
just computer simulation and we have
some demonstration of the middle-sized
league just demonstrations of my team
my students i think so the manila
balance
came to us and then her team
participated the competition relation
game competition
yeah that and we discussed in how to
organize the next year and so once again
therefore savannah belas is one of the
founders of the world cup
were there any other people that you
worked with on the robocop
at that time
so french guy dominic do her
and
i forgot his name uh
university southern california there was
another
group of the middle-sized league robot
team
now he is doing the configurable
robotics
configurable robots our modular robots
it's not his name is not trish or
um who's at usc
you see uh i forgot his name
sean um he's a chinese guy
at usc yes in california
well we'll look for it in fact we can't
find it yeah also okay
i forget his name uh so anyhow
and also what you see the two guys one
guy is in
the middle side league another guy is a
computer simulation
his name was i forgot
wow i have so long memory
who won the first competition
okay uh in 1997 yeah
that's a story that i like to tell you
so uh uh at the 1997
the first world cup with three leagues
one is a competitive simulation the game
so the 11 plus 11
and games the second one is the small
size rig
that's at the money level also the
participating small
and middle-sized league not right side
yet
no humanity yet so
the competition relation is much much
easier than the real robot
therefore we got almost 20 teams or
something
and was more 25 and the smaller
chancellor just four teams
and the middle side the five teams
so most seriously i suppose may is the
manuals cmu
gotta win if my memory was correct
in the middle sadly the five teams the
my team from japan it's another japanese
team
from dkn lincoln is a you know in the
waco and so on
they came under the university three
more
that was from usc
and one from uh
i forgot this name but uh
also united states the australia
the five deals so uh
australia teams nothing as a
they brought their awards but almost
random movement
usc and my team
by accident the same big
japanese toy it's a japanese radio
control card
yeah so was uh i forgot his name
or anyhow we did you know this is
surprised
because you know two teams the same
vehicle
and then we put on the tv cameras and so
on and so on
so uh sometimes difficult to
discriminate the two teams together
anyhow so these two teams
the final these two teams and uh
in the uh the first game they draw
so we proposed the second game but
somehow the ust teams
uh ran out of the battery so no
batteries anymore
but we had but okay so we have we don't
have any games
we didn't we couldn't again therefore
the core champions
first game at that time it's very very
helpful ages nowadays very very
competitive right
the first year so because you know we
are suffering we are sharing you know
some difficulties the challenges moving
robots because you know
it's very very difficult to control the
five robot at the same time
so there are some robots it just stay
some levels of random movements and so
on
so that is a very very difficult as a
big challenge
so anyhow so the two teams called
champion and
uh we started you know it was together
to uh
to do some research on this one
yes and that was the first one and
not so many european teams yet
that the the robocop was held in 1997
and there are another other people from
the european team
european people okay so they observed
the
game and they decided
okay we can do it because you know the
performance is so poor
so we are very ashamed that the audience
or spectators okay
the potential of the teams okay we can't
do it
so the next year 98 in paris in
conjunction with the robocop are the
world cup okay
so we have many european teams and also
iranian teams
and so on that many started
so that's only the beginning of the
robocup and
at that time so the heroic
is a sony therefore we got to the
sponsorship from sony that
in the world the lobo cup is very uh
you know early days and many professors
not business guy so therefore the banner
or some they have a poster
made by ourselves and also will put
everything for ourselves so the very
very early days of the robocop
yeah and is did ibos become involved in
the robocup because of sony or sony yes
so the idea was that
that was yes
in paris 1998 it's a demonstration
exhibition
start from 1999 in
[Music]
stockholm the first uh
official game in 1999. yeah
so the idea is of course you know the
hillary is insulin and therefore
uh easy to discuss how to invoke the
the io to the robocop so the idea was
that
um okay so uh two ideas
why that okay we should have uh
some uh the league with a common
platform
nowadays we just say standard platform
the hardware is
fixed and some competition of the
software
that's one reason so another reason is
that
the same one is that because many people
are suffering from the building the
robots
because that time since the robocop
started from the hki conference there
are many computer scientists
not mechanical engineering they are not
so good enough therefore the
they like to have some such platforms
therefore uh we love to have the robert
other ibo the teams and so
so the backside vision of the from the
company is that
it's a big promotion again with
advertisement
on the other hand so the lock-up teams
the very very hard users
so all the time using the you know
eyeball
and then so also my team and other teams
also they're easy to program and then
return to the company that they fixed
again and again and again many times
and then the company found one thing
one part systematically broken easily
from many teams they found some mistakes
in the design of some parts
that's a good reason for the company
side so the user
you know found that something okay it's
something wrong that's uh so that's the
key idea of the robocap
the open to public that many people just
tried to use
and then found some feedback
this is some origin the original idea of
the
my proposal of the loma city core the
lowest city is a
town but some experiment all kinds of
robotics
experiments and i proposed the city of
osaka
10 years ago and we started to work
almost 10 years but sad news
that last year election
of the new mayor and the
new mayor changed everything
because you know japan as a nation
huge amount of deficit all the time and
also the local government
the same similar situations so the city
of osaka spent
much money to the not useful
in the past therefore the new mayor
changed everything
so cut cut cut everything and
reviews all kinds of the events and
everything so one of the events is uh
my proposal because actually the new
time will come next year
2017 the march and we
try to set up the robust decor to do
that to deploy the experiments and so on
but uh no way to return
so now i'm thinking about that different
way to realize the robotic or something
but the
first problem was they were rejected
so you were never able to never but in
fukuoka
i think they have like the free zone and
there are some areas where you can do
that right yeah yeah yeah
very well yeah that's right okay what
were some of the elements that you were
going to incorporate into the
robot city what sort of things did you
want to incorporate into the robot
city like self-driving cars or
okay robots so nowadays in honda the
achievement
as they are trying to utilize the asthma
to
serve the tea or coffee or something
so in the restaurant situations or
atl it's a hiroshi ishiguro is
some building research there and also
atr at
honda and oscar university has an
experiment of the the
robotic experiment on the street but
still there are some friends
not to enter the favor so the idea is
that the robot city core as
some experiment robots but idea is
uh not simply the you know some
individual robots
but the environment itself a kind of
level the big robot
the town itself so uh
that's uh many people some people said
invisible
invisible robots so there are many
sensors actuators and so on
so watch the behavior of the payments
and to help
to provide the information and so on so
the strong connection
with a kind of the cloud the idea of
therefore we say just the cloud develops
so the environment
is kind of the brain the information
collection storage and then the
individual robots
kind of interface with people so this is
visible
this is unvisible so the cooperation
with between the visible robots and
invisible robots
so uh so the invisible robots not only
have the people
are not only to help them support the
individual robot but
also help the people like the the kids
or the senior people and now japan is a
super aging society
right and a couple years maybe one third
of the populations over 65.
so we are so serious so the robot should
support the senior life of the people
therefore attend
social demands so the idea of the labor
city core
is also involved this kind of the
situation some experiment
how the people accept the robots or some
artifacts
something so the older time i i
mentioned
this idea as many people actually oh
that's a good idea a nice idea or
something
so therefore the korean people also they
said robot
robot land or something near to the
interim airport yeah that guy
you know came to see me and then i got
an interview
with a similar idea they tried to
realize
so and also singapore not exactly the
same
but some similar idea i would say uh the
the cooperation of the business side
companies and the university kind of
incubation centers and so on
so it's a really pity to not realize in
osaka because actually
i proposed the robocup in the next year
but after the quake and also new mayor
changes
and the japanese big companies recession
like this one
we forgot we withdraw the you know the
proposal
so next year it's not in osaka
maybe after the other this mayor changes
again
[Laughter]
yeah yeah because you know previous
mayors send a letter
to hold robocop 19 uh to 2017
but this the previous mail and listening
was
lost yeah therefore
the politics and robotics yeah
so uh i'm continuing the work of the
leaves learning
and machine learning applying the
robocop and so on so on
and also where the final goal of the
lookup
to build a team of the 11 human rights
by 25 20 50.
not my own statement but the heroin
statement
he had he got interviewed with a
generalist of the science science
scientific journalists
or commentators and they act
okay and he asked this guy asked the
hierarchy
how many years do you need to realize
some
this kind of things okay 100 years or
something
and this guy said that usually in
general
50 years is kind of the time
for example uh june
1953 that's why i was
born it's a genome at the gene and then
200
uh 2003 the all human gammas are the
analyzed or airplane
right brothers i forgot exact date and
then
40 years later the jump era airplane and
rockets and so on
so the things should be achieved in 50
years that's
his comment okay he like mentioned okay
by 2050 that's a statement but you know
this statement
as you know not the goal itself is a
goal
but process is much more important so
just we say the landmark project like a
u.s
air space project to send a man to the
moon or something and during this
process
you know uh teflon fabrication or
something the spin-off
so we set up the disco and uh
you know towards this process there's a
many spinal
for example if we can build up they know
the death challenge is a very decent one
it's a very close one you know the
humans can do everything yeah
humans can do everything so if we have
the humanoids
that can play the sucker with humans
that means a very very flexible and very
uh
movement genetic movement and also the
skin
because in a what if the human player is
damaged by the robot prayer people are
claimed out about doing something
so robot should be easily broken against
the humans
the very soft skin the structure and
this kind of the material should be
applied to the
house for the senior people to protect
them or something
so that's the idea okay so the tradition
the human
or human right so here i can mention
that
we have a chance because robert does not
uh
the human lineup they do not feel any
pressure
my statements are completely against
without
feeling the pressure we can't continue
that will
to get a win or something so the
motivations
of consciousness the many many cognitive
issues
is just i remember you know remembered
because when
i was undergraduate student i chose
chosen laboratory of the patent
recognition because
i'm interested in what humans are
therefore the
idea of the of course learning emotion
learning
but you know much more interesting is
the motivations emotion
consciousness it's a very very big
issues
so of course i'm doing i i was
keeping the research of the robocup and
the ribs running
but at the same time i started some kind
of the
new research issues of the cognition
of the emotion intuition and so on so on
so that's much more human audited
research
has started as a person maybe
yes around the early 2000 2001 or two or
three
so one thousand is a lobocap research
the another side started to
people from learning the learning but
still the another
other research issue of the human cell
and so was that your jst yes
yes yes yes yes that's uh the actually
we uh
i've studied yasukun yoshi university
tokyo and
also hiroshi shiguro this regards
because
we had some research meeting
in kehana near the atr
and the young guys as myself and yasukun
yoshi and the hiroshi ishiguro
the key persons and uh hideaki nakashima
he is a very
another famous guy in japan in ai and he
is now president
of hakota university
and also other guys and also one of the
members is
ken ichiro mogi he's a brain scientist
but somehow he's a kind of
you know generalist or the commentator
and so on so
and also he published many books
and uh so so much media coverage
therefore many other brain scientists
they do not like evolute his work
because in this guy kenjiro mogi is so
media coverage
and not only the scientific program but
also some other entertainment and the
mega comments
so this behavior this kind of behavior
not so good for
these other guys so the many japanese
brain scientists
they do not evaluate the the change of
mortgage work but
for us it's different field so we
exchange
you know discuss and also he came out
the quarian
is uh feeling of the color or the
any kind of things so he he came out he
cares about security and we discuss
how to utilize the quality in the human
eyes or something something
so anyhow this research meeting is so
stimulus
and the first meeting i introduced my
robots of the reference learning
and that's so stimulating so so we
discussed
about how to apply the learning to other
areas words as a learning method of the
like
humans and so on so one of the guests
was mitsuo kawato or
the other guys and also all the time we
invited the researchers not robotics
but as a medical doctor or a
biologist or
sometimes another brain scientist and so
on
so it's very very stimulus and we
learned about
what the what humans are what the
biology systems is or something
something
so we think about the about
uh such kind of issue the two seasons
three or four something like that
and 2005 is the third year of my project
and also interview during the robocup
in osaka that's so busy time
so 2005 in the summer i had the
interview with a lot project
the more correctly i have the gst has a
lot
it's a very top one very famous one and
much more funding and i don't want the
cluster that i have two interviews
closed and the another at the same time
of the same member
it's a kind of backup okay the first one
is cluster
and the second was avatar and my editor
project was
elected and then i started from
september
and therefore the class project okay
your proposal rejected
of course so we started september
2005 and 5.5 years project
that's a second time of my life
so motivated yeah first one was i i
mentioned
my paper was rejected and so on that's
uh
okay so the idea is okay we can we can
start
the research of the human related
laboratory research
so the group consists of the yes
hiroshi ishiguro and another guy is
he was my colleague at the core horizon
so his group is good at the
pneumatic cheaters robots so the baby
robots of the newborn
newer p-n-u-w yeah yeah they're clawing
and the working yeah of course so his
group
is developing some different kind of
robots
the baby robots and so on and uh hiroshi
shiguro's group
of course you know he he started already
the android research
so he asked i asked him
okay the as a permanent is okay
but don't don't make android
the human right please human but very
close to the humans
because at that time my impression was
at android so impressed so much bias
so sometimes difficult to focus on the
research issues
therefore i ask him to the design is
not the android type but
somehow the humanity but close to the
humans
so his group they designed and discussed
and with the companies and the cb square
cb scale was the first robot
we introduced from my our project
so it's kind of like a newborn but it's
much larger in a sense
cb squared yeah it has the bigger head
so the at that time still was very
difficult
downsizing so the size was 1.3 meters
and the 33 kilograms but the proportion
is a baby so the big head yeah
right all right so
uh okay so then you have the cb scale
uh at the time in a word
uh hiroshi named the robot
m3 so mum made man
it's so strong in french so
okay so we changed the name the cv sky
the child robot with parametric body
and civil skill that rules but
he or she like to insist you know m3 so
the
as a after the civ square the his group
this uh developed three kinds of robots
uh naomi zinke and
kindy three times but all the time
emsley naomi absolutely thinks
yeah he likes to put the embassy
and so um what other sorts of
collaborations have you had over the
years and who have you been
collaborating with i think with
different researchers in the us or
around japan
oh okay okay so after we started
a lot of projects and hiroshi shiguro
and
okay i forgot another guy is toshiro
inui
he's a cognitive neuroscientist
so he has been doing some imaging study
of the
functional mri and also
joint research with medical doctors who
cares
uh autistic children and william
syndrome
so were they both artists ads
and william syndrome too extreme of the
language development
so the one of the big challenges for my
project was
uh how the language
okay biology it emerged
from early development so therefore we
focus on the very very
early days of the human that's the
infant or baby
so where they are circulation group they
have already started about the fitness
simulation the very very interesting on
and that's a strong connection to the
medical doctors who care the babies
and also our developmental psychologists
and also the imaging studies are brain
scientists so
from the beginning the brain scientists
and the developed
psychologists the cognitive scientists
the medical doctors and so on
are not exactly in my project
but as a connection and discussion and
so on so on
so therefore my idea was
uh okay the each group focuses on the
in with their own research issues but my
idea is unified integrate everything
together
after five years after 5.5 years but
actually i cannot i couldn't do that
because of course the integration itself
is very difficult
but in each group
they once they started their own
research
they found a new one new one new one new
there is more clause related to some
biologists
or the real one therefore i gave up
okay please do that and then in my
in my brain try to connect and then
so the whole picture is everything but
just the path is we realized we achieved
this one
someone guys did attribution this is
missing okay this is
something so in my brain i have a whole
picture that
i can i cannot integrate everything
together but
i just put something something here and
something
so uh uh there are many uh several
research issues as i mentioned
the phone connection with the brain
saying that
actually the tashiro inui he is a
cognitive neuroscientist
therefore the very close uh you know the
brain scientist
and also uh also he has uh
joint research with a brain scientist
who
cares a monkey monkey brain
so electric probe nowadays of course
it's very very difficult
but and has a monkey think about some
the maze or the prediction and so on so
the histogram is the main focus of the
brain activities
and uh in the world uh adaptive disorder
patient of the different disorders
and so on so this is a very uh
extend the connection to that and also
involves
many people like this one but the answer
to the question these kind of things
were the more
concretely some example of the research
or just other people who
work has influenced you and you've
interacted with uh
in terms of okay sharing robotics yeah
yeah yeah yeah yeah
so uh sir i have to tell another thing
about the my background
it is academic society not exactly the
robotics itself
but in japan the baby science
it's curious about that i saw that on
your cv and i was curious what is baby
sign
yeah the baby science is you know it's a
once a year we have the meeting
just once a year therefore because each
people
has his their own background society or
for me it's a robotic society or
something
so were the medical doctors the primary
researchers
and the nurse and the care are helpers
and also the engineers like us and so on
so on
so so kind different people
gathered and so the usually the academic
society says that it's open to public
everyone come but actually not only the
expert
attended conference but the baby science
is really open to public
therefore some forum so the original
people can especially mothers
come and then discuss so therefore
not really scientific discussion about
how to how to carry the baby
or some social problem how to
carry out the kids or some kind of you
know the client
and so on and so on so uh but as the
baby science said just focus on the
early days of the features and the k uh
the influence
and maybe before two or three years and
so on
how did this start i don't do you know
of this being in other countries or is
this just in japan
next month i come again the minneapolis
is igis
international conference of the infant
study
but it's different of atmosphere
and uh icis in front and the society of
the international society of
infant uh study isis
almost from the united states almost
i surprisingly forgot the exact number
but maybe
60 or 70 percent almost in the united
states
and developmentally psychologists almost
so in japan the baby science said you
know different
really interdisciplinary okay but the
the
infant study infant society in the
united states
many many different cycles almost
certainly different
i think so yeah so mainly the
observation and analyze the data and so
on
yeah yes that i mentioned about this ics
story is that usually i attend icl
conference
or i lost or some workshops i don't know
icis is
many many female researchers
quite different from us so once
i attend the one session with my friend
university of tokyo
this is a guy male 1 organizer
female all panelists female i
just we look around
all female or no males oh and then
i realized okay the female student of my
the same situation it was when
i was in the conference waiting to um
talk to someone and the student came to
me he was like are you a psychologist
it's like why do you think so because
i'm a woman
now you know how the women feel in
robotics
but somehow it depends on the time but
sometimes we have the human students
actually i have just now i have one
but last year four
or five something and they especially
in the world the learning or the
cognitive functions
and so on not the hard way itself
and i think sometimes with kind of human
robot interaction or more so yeah yeah
yeah
yeah that's what they're more female
yeah that's right yeah
more psychological issues so who are
some of your students who are
still working in robotics or maybe have
prominent positions
people you've trained my group yeah
former students
are your former students okay uh
one of the guys as uh when i started
the robocup one student uh
yastaki takahashi so just we say yes
yes yes okay he he entered my laboratory
and as a from the beginning he has been
involved in the robocup
so his life just look okay so
he uh you know he has done the work of
the rehearsal learning staff of the best
on the robocup
and the middle center league so that
he promoted to the other university i
forgot the exact
year maybe five or six years ago
and then at that time so that he
took everything of the middle side his
university
and then at the time i have four
solid middle sides small size ivory
the human league four weeks the four
teams in my lab
so many the middle science league
left okay the ivy league
went sony retired okay gone and summer
science league just for the education i
was
gone this is only the human so anyhow
yesterday takahashi
students now he is associate professor
of the fukui university
and then he continues in world
the middle side league participation
that's the one guy
so another guy is
also he uh doing some research
uh the logo gap and the machine learning
on the same stuff
but he's more a theoretical guy
and one year or two years he spent
postdoc in my lab after that he moved to
the atl
as a at the end of the counter-suns
project
and next year uh deutschen's group
in the oyster now he is in okinawa
and they still continue some learning
the research still later and so on
that's a
aj uchibe the guy
after that there are several
uh the dj students
after two guys
okay and also uh when we started before
the another project
uh we have already started some work of
the joint attention
how to realize the joint attention
something and the
yukina guy you know guy she
got the phd from my lab and after that
he spent three years at nyct
at near atl and an nsct just one hour
two years i forgot
and then he moved the germany and spent
three years in the periphery university
and the beautiful university is very
interesting
because it's just one building
all kinds of difficulties the
development together
and the basement is our street
the shopping like a town and upstairs is
just
the mechanical engineering or the
psychologists or societies and so on
so it's much easier for the staff the
faculty members to
exchange the discuss everything that's
kind of
therefore it's a very similar situation
a similar
research direction in the believers
university hours so
yukin and i spent three years m and
uh hiroshi ishiguro has
the funding at the global seaweed gcy
project and a special appointment
as a special appointment associate
professor yuki nagai
came back in also and she is
doing not only the research but also
many administration work of the project
and so on
this is yuki nagai and other guy
is a masaki original he got a phd from
my lab
but actually he graduated from the
different development
uh the bioengineering so that he has
a little biased by the biobiolics or
more
and his study was
a kind of working the human he
contributed human right in my life
studying the teams and
also were not without the humanity but
also
uh but just we bought the standard
platform
and modify something so in this works
and also
he is personally interested in the human
working
how to or something how to run the
working and so on
what some more general research issues
of the
body image or the body representations
and also the attention and so on so on
staff
so now he is associate professor of the
private university
near osaka university still he has once
two students in my life so all the time
the skype connection the discussion
but his development is not
real robotics but sociology or
informatics was so sorry something
therefore he gave up to continue the
robot research
but some human related research issues
that's a massage or
ah
he uh graduated uh he got a phd in
my lab and his study was
about the joint attention stuff
and also the body representation so well
oh before that uh moga is a yuichiro
yoshikawa
you ichiro yoshikawa he
got phd from my lab and he spent
one year in postdoc in atl with hiroshi
because here she likes to employ him as
a research member
of his project on at atl but
when i started the alert project i like
to
uh in him david contributed my project
and then he came back and spent
four years in my project and now he is
associate professor i was a hiroshi's
laboratory in the different campus
because
okay as another stories i asked hiroshi
to be the professor of my department
six years ago no no one years ago
before a lot of projects there were two
session five
four or five something yeah and hiroshi
was
with me six years
therefore yes i suppose maybe 2001 or
2002 i
asked him to be the professor in my
department
and then he spent six years my
department
and moved to the same university but
different camps different faculties
engineering science my graduate
my own is engineering engine science
but actually i graduated engineer
science at the moment here
so hiroshi's idea
is every three years he'll exchange
everything
therefore it's a one exception is my
love
my development when i spent three years
he has a movement to promotion
but some promotion was not successful
and then he continued
three years but he changed something
after six years
moved back to not bad but the change
yeah so so my uh uh
moved
so he got a phd from my lab
and he moved raw fighters
instruments the laboratory
and two years three years i forgot
so the raw fiber is another story is
that
when i started my laboratory since 1992
i i asked the very famous professor
uh yoshikawa at that time he was killed
university he is very famous for the
kinematics robotics and also there are
many
very very classical authority classical
one and i asked him
and as a co-host he is one of the
project leaders of my project
was uh just you know graduated phd
from his love and i asked him to someone
to help me and he came in the 1992
two or three okay so that's a call also
and he spent many years my lab
as a research assistant
and as also the associate professors and
many people evaluated his
talent yeah he's very smart very very
smart
and he's good at highway so
when we started in with my album and so
he is a necessary person to to
teach the students the hardware's and
everything
so the first robot of the robocop was
of course it's the car itself is a led
controller
but we modified to change everything at
that time called as good at
the good advice at everything in the
hollywood staff
so he spent many years and
he had the chance to going abroad just a
similar
stage of my own the university maryland
so i recommend him
to the in the world uh low private
situation
because um of course you know as i
mentioned professor
ayoshi is very very traditional
controlling engineering the robotics
therefore the co-host of them and at the
beginning the very very
fixed idea they'll legit the cultural
theory
like this one that his talent is not
limited to
this one but his idea is much more broad
therefore
i suppose it is a good chance for him to
deploy his idea to the different
environment and different situations so
the raw fibers
okay so you may know the raw fiber is
very famous for the very cheap design
the hardware style and the physical
environment
idea also so heated also was recommended
my co-host to get there and
do some research and he spent two or
three years
and again hiroshi pick up to the idea
now so here all the time watch the
people and pick up bigger pickup
but this is very very good because he is
so good at
utilizing people yeah pick up pick up
yes another guy is uh takashi minato he
got to the page of
my lab but also the hiroshi pickup
still he is working with hiroshi at the
atl
they should just give them contracts as
soon as they're done with their phd with
you
[Laughter]
yeah he got a phd from my lab and
adl first and research assistant
in the histogram in the australistic
and the postdoc of the my project
and again return to the atl
so this guy is a very
nice motorbike usually we have
many you got many students one of the
big stream is just
uh from the undergraduate course
entertainment university
and the undergraduate course and to the
graduate course this is the one
one pathway typical one the
undergraduate goals that another pathway
is that not entering the oscar
university as a freshman
but i have to say some in japanese
crossing
it's uh so junior high school is
just three years but they have the five
years
so were uh sorry certainly
high school the three years and
university four years in japan
but this school is uh three years like a
high school
and two more years so just we say course
and
i don't know the exact english term
not private school a kind of college
community college yeah
like this one okay so five years
means that you know the third year
of the undergraduate course some
examination
to enter the the third grade
years so this guy takashi minato
is a graduate not to enter the
university of the freshman but
this uh community college and then
moved so this another pathway is now
are very popular in my lab or under my
staff
so some guys this pathway
to two two different research pathway to
enter the underground schools or two
more years spent there and then enter
the college course
anyhow some orbeez or audience of this
community college
is now more popular but takashimiya was
the first guy
of my lab the graduate discourse so
this guy is very smart and good at
hardware and so on
um i just wanted to ask you you've got
two awards that i noticed one from
japan good design award oh yeah yeah
yeah yeah
and then also a ministry of education
award
yeah yeah the second hour is
collaboration with
akaso kawasaki he's a real professional
designer yeah because
uh i i
yes another story is that he was
professor of the
nagoya institute of technologies and
when i was before he came to osaka
university
i have as an appointment with him as
about the design of the robot city
so i i
met him kasukasaki with uh some company
guys some developers
takanaka compliant uh general
constructor of the company
the house i met him to help
organize the town as a viewpoint he's a
professional designer industrial
designer
therefore i we asked him to uh
get some advice on how to organize how
to design the town itself
this is a starting time and before that
one of the my friend in norwalk
university
satoshi kawata he is also famous guy
in uh not robotics but
photonics it's a very very micro world
small world the physics and photonics
and so on the knife is
a leader of the photonic center of the
oscar university
that he got the funding from the
government
of the uh frc the frontier research
center
and my project robert corporate was
elected
one of the fyg projects and the
government or something
and this guy is a very very aggressive
guy
and also he
he he was thinking about the design is
very important
so as and especially the he loved the
idea of the
kazoo kawasaki so he likes to invite him
to the oscar university
the another guy is also like to
kazuo kazaki come to osaka so was after
he
came to osaka university some big
argument among the mechanical at the
development of mechanical engineering
this is another story anyhow
so since he came to osaka university
we have a meeting again not so much but
again
again and we discussed okay
somehow someday we have some joint
research of the design the robots and so
on
and he he has shown the interest of our
vocal robots
uh finds a vocal robot adjust the
silicone tube and we deform
the i know tube and make a sound
something
he care about because actually he
his own is a patient of the heart
disease therefore
some joint research with medical doctors
have to design the artificial
heart or something something and
therefore also he
uh you know very interesting to have the
the poker truck
and and also the actual run or something
so uh therefore okay okay that we
started some design of the vocal robot
with him so the our love sketch
was designed by my students and then we
show
uh we have shown that of skate to him
okay okay that he had idea and then
this one this one this one and then we
submit design with this robot to the
design competition and he we got some
design
something but robot itself is not so
good as we expected but the design
itself is kind of
so uh the vocal robot so his idea is
our robot the vocal robot is that
silicon tubes the surge
but his idea is curved because our vocal
tract is curved
and the nose is in uh need some kind of
discard and just work
so on okay so the the main uh
body structure is like a this corn
like this one and to change to deform
the
in the word silicon tube we need some
kind of actuators
the previous version was just a tendon
type
and then the actuator itself is it was
hidden
but his idea is just each
segment so the actuator is just like a
indian's heart like this one okay
so he he loved he likes this idea or
something
from people in robotics it's not so good
but actually oh it's okay it's okay
especially the one
another idea is that so by using these
robots
how to vocalize or how to change the in
the world
deformed the shape of the shuriken it's
visible
therefore uh further in the world the
human subject
can observe that you know how the lord
tried to vocalize
so was one of the research issues have
this kind of appreciation affect
the human subject to to imagine
communication or something
actually that the research project was
stopped
but anyhow that's an idea anyhow that
was elected
that they could design do you think
there's a lot of potential exchange
between design and robotics
i think so yeah after that so he his
group
not the collaboration but this group
designed some mobile robots very simple
one and so on so yeah as you mentioned
i believe that need some design
sense because you know we expect that
robots in our daily life
in a huge society so in that case robots
should be accepted by the people
so therefore we should have the various
with a you know design
and the human can choose which design
for example i suppose maybe the roomba
it's a
cycle and now that you can
pick up the youtube cat on the
right and then the different like a pet
okay so uh another issue is of course
we need some design to other some
commercially available products
to adult to be accepted by the original
people
but the original people change the way
we're thinking
therefore you know open to people like
that
you know it's very very important to a
secondary
to change the products so the roomba now
it's like a pet
and the cat yeah
what do you see as some of the future
challenges for your
your work in robotics yeah obviously
still i'm continuing
the word about the project not the
eligibility but the research issues of
the
current project is that uh how
the the concept
of the self and edges happen in the
brain
and also robots so
especially the focus on the mirror
neural system
the myonia system in some sense self and
other
non-discrimination that is the same but
at a sense it's a very good hint to
discriminate and save and adjust
so now we are thinking about some very
very fundamental neural mechanisms
to emerge such kind of fractions so at
the beginnings of learning some behavior
and second stage is just imagination
of the if observed as a movement
imagination of
its own movement or something the new
system so that's some starting point
the concept itself and others and so on
so now we are starting
this new project out there so uh
new staff is uh hiroki mori
he he was the the he was a student
of the yasokun restaurant and he is the
main contributor of the fritos
simulation
and now he is a new staff of my lab and
we started
some new project based on his uh
uh his uh study about future simulation
because you know uh his study was based
on the in the world the neurodynamics
of the still not so uh many but
some neurodynamics of the new uh new
brands and the modern neurons and
occupations and so on therefore uh
we started we should study we should now
we are studying about
the new project based on his idea of the
neurodynamics
and some social interaction and how that
this kind of situation
changed some dynamics of the neural
systems
and how they developed this system to do
something
i guess we can do our final question
um so our final question is if you had
some advice to give to young people who
are interested in robotics
what would it be okay so generally i
just say
uh not only the robotics but uh for the
young people oh
i was asked you know to do the statement
okay please do what you like to do
that's our first things so because you
know in japan
many students okay so i gave my talks in
the in front of the
not the high school not the university
student high school students a junior
high school student
sometimes elementary school students the
way to
say is of course different but the
content is the same all the time
so many uh students and also their
parents
often asked me how much
my brother was my sounds are those like
can be
like you okay okay please please
so where are the one big point is that
many students just you know elementary
school
okay junior high school it's okay but
high school students
so pressed by the entire examination of
the university
the kind of training and training and
training so
they gave up doing what
they like to do so kind of the pressure
after the entering the exam i entered
the university they
released their mind and then do
something but
i surprised maps all the time please do
please challenge please attack the new
challenge
if you like to do that so if you can do
that
or if you have
whichever you got some information and
this is a very very good
basis fundamental structure of to start
a new challenge
this is so that's my experience all the
time
challenge failed success and again and
again
and again so the success of the
failure is very very good teacher for me
to think about
what's next step so
in average my
in my brain i just counting
ratio failure and the success
maybe 10 percent success
19 percent failure but failure is not
fair
90 percent failure is supporting 10
percent success all the time
so in this sense 100 success
thank you okay thank you very much yeah