so if we can start by having
you say your name and where and when you
were born that would be great uh-huh
i'm melisha cassatt i was born in
barcelona
and i've been working there after
studying
industrial engineering at the university
universitat politecnica de catalunya
and then i began working at
the school of industrial and
informatics computer engineering
and there i start
my career and so how did you get
interested
in engineering and robotics and
computer science well at the beginning
just after finishing my
my career in industrial engineering my
degree uh
i started becoming a teacher at the
at the university and
well we started working more in computer
technologies and
started doing things in vision until
my advisor that's joseph ahmad
he traveled with the catalan delegation
to japan for industrial creation see how
automation progress and so
and she he came back enthusiastic about
the new thing that we didn't know yet
that was robotics
and so from then we start and i think we
we started to do research of what
robotics were
that it seemed that it had to be
something promising for the future
and we start working on that studying
and
basically what we did at the beginning
was teaching because nobody
around us knew about robotics and
so people start becoming aware that
robotics was something interesting in
the future so
industry came to us and asking for
teaching
courses trying to to see how robotics
can
benefit the company and so
and this is what basically we started
mainly at the beginning teaching
and then later on some years
some years later that was when
spain entered into the european
community
uh we with our collaboration that we had
a strong collaboration with
lars and dulux
then we work with them and get a
european project
and then we start really after having
had previously a national
small national project on on the
beginning of robotics
then we started working in a
international cooperation with other
groups and so
doing a big step for what and so what
were some of the first robots you became
familiar with after this trip in japan
what were some of the things that
well at the beginning it was basically a
toy because it was in the early
80s and
well there were more automation than
really
so of course the the one that became
familiar was the
the puma of animation it was the the
typical robot
that exists by then at the universities
uh
and from them
well starting with abb robots robotic
arm
industrial robotic arm we have the first
experiences we had with
we once with some
some robots that come the abb
and then we start doing some practices
and things with the students and and
then we get more familiar with that
but in what referred to research
basically
it was in mobile robots because the
project was on
mobility and and so
vision and detection tracking navigation
and our research was in this area of
mobile robots
so you didn't do manipulation you did
uh well as a researcher well we work on
our manipulation just to become aware to
teaching
and it was later on with this first
project that we start with mobile robots
navigation
so more planning vision vision applied
to robotics
and the small national project that you
mentioned that was the first one
it was basically some automation was
about is manipulation also
building our own specific device for
doing simple things and who did you work
with on that
uh it was our group along this first
project
this the first national project you mean
yeah
who else was in your group uh well my
advisor then was
joseph matt that was the professor then
at the university of my in my department
and
which is basically and then other many
other uh
by then it was a colleague viscenciario
and the collector that's been moving to
industry and mainly
basic students that collaborate with us
and did this happen during your phd
yeah yeah i was doing my phd my phd was
in robotics
object recognition and recognition the
objects
through the the shape of the curvature
of
the contours so it seems very all now
and so what did you do after your phd
well continuing at the university uh so
we start this
international collaboration and then we
start
moving from applications basically i've
been in barcelona at the university of
the polytechnical university
and we have
evolving to other
fields of application we start thinking
on industrial applications that was
robotic was by then
but then as we had other uh
technological applications for disabled
for example
we started thinking on the possibility
of using robotics for disability
disabled people and we built our first
assistant robot and it was a soft robot
and just a robotic arm
made by foam rubber
modules that was in collaboration with
the hospital across barcelona
and from then later on
we were changing the other applications
basically
steered by industrials or
or or other fields so we have been
attracted for biologists to work on
underwater then
as region came to us and we entered into
the surgical
field and so we have uh
been deriving the research to these
areas that
that seem that have uh interest
and have more challenging problems
but it has been a natural way of
evolving
as the needs around us
still has to to change and try to solve
problems
can you tell us a little bit about this
first part the european project the big
one who did you work with what kinds of
problems were you working on
well basically our first period was
basically oriented to vision application
or
robotics using vision and so basically
our first big work was
a tracking system with which we had
different applications and it was nice
because we had
a competition even with mit because
we had not big resources to research so
we developed our own
hardware without using big computers
so working uh with our own traffic we
reach real time operation and that was
i think a very nice thing because
we did a specialized device that it was
for a while uh the first uh the
first system or the the quicker system
that could operate
in real time so we do a truck following
of uh
strips and uh on the road and
uh well for vehicle navigation or
tracking a person
uh just keeping a vehicle keeping a
distance from that
and competing with the connection
machine
we reached the higher time of course we
were much more specialized
but in this particular application we
got
a faster response and you mentioned that
you were working with laws
and toulouse yeah with this
project it was the project
well i cannot remember another name if
this came later
it was a split project with
with last and matra and other big
companies oxford
uh actual university uh that is
basically
your mobility mobile robots for
automation
of applications
and basically using vision but this was
it was this the
first european one yeah it was our first
european project and was that was
um yeah it was georgia
basically was the one
that we had more stronger collaboration
and then it came to riches
and around what time was that it was
87 i think we began about 87.
i'm not wrong and so what kinds of
projects did you do after that
well we then derive it we work in uh the
next
european project was with phillips
trying to eliminate one of the
part of the process of building
the screens so if i say i eat this
project it was the second one
also working in envision
and then we have been deriving more to
different kind of applications
under water robotics and service
robotics
and then to medical and so you mentioned
that you also started working early on
on
disability yeah soft robots how did you
get interested in that particular
problem
well uh we came also again
to the feel of disability because we
have a blind student
that asked us to to build a specific
keyboard so we did for him a
keyboard able to to write in
bradley and and receive the response
it was one of the first prototypes and
on this area
and as after doing this
that was some technological development
and having some local grants for doing
that
we thought that if we were working in
robotics and we
had say we had felt that we can
contribute somewhere it was our
initiative in this case
to start uh building this robot and we
contact
some systems centers
and from there we we start working on on
this area
and that's why the came other
the opposite uh way some people from
outside came to us if you do this
why cannot do that and so then we start
with surgery and so
and so um you mentioned that you started
kind of
figuring out what type of ways you could
help so what were some of the ways
what kind of so in these early studies
on
kind of using robots to help um
is assistive machines how did you start
figuring out what might be some areas in
which robots might be helpful
well you see robot that's an armor that
that can help uh i will say
initially we thought that an assistant
well i think at the beginning at least
when we start
looking at what robotic was so coming
earlier
uh we saw that the first application of
robotics was basically on
civil engineering too also the same the
first publication
more than industrial work on civil
engineering and
and some kind of assistant arms and
hands
uh so that's inspired you to think that
you can do
something similar and the idea was to
change from a rigid arm
to a soft arm that it by itself is
intrinsically safe for the
for the user and and on the other side
is great challenges but the flexi
because the flexibility of the arm
produces or problems of control
uncontrollable problems and and so
challenges to solve
how to control the position of the harm
that is
sort of moving do you remember whose
work this was that you had
seen early on above the arms and um
let me see i
i think it was maybe they utter
and it was an arm i don't remember i
remember now the utah
i think and so what kinds of projects
did you start doing
on this assistive robotics
domain okay basically we start with this
the project that launched us
is what was this and then we we also do
let's say other industrial applications
so manipulation basically based on
on vision controlling robot revision and
this is what
what in which we spend some years and
also robot mobile roads at the beginning
but then at about 1923
they came to us either biologists asking
that they went to
do exploration undersea and region that
had problems and we start in these two
different fields
that although they are different they
have some common things that is still
operation or
this kind of interaction with humans and
from then we start
more strongly on the underwater we think
we were
the the group that started the research
and underwater robotics
in spain and also in
in laparoscopic surgery in which we we
do the first application that was a real
clinical intervention in
96 i think it was the first or one of
the first
interventions using a robot holding a
camera
to assist the surgeon it was an industry
robot
so what we what we developed is not the
rocket itself
but the system that controls the robot
so to see the viability
of one
robot controlled by vision to assist the
surgeon on that
and in what refers to underwater what we
did
we did the project was also
intellepration
and the main goal was also to use
vision and tracking for control on the
vehicle
underwater controlling position tracking
moving objects taking samples
stabilizing the vehicle in front of a
structure if
it has to do some actuation thanks to
the reference
point of visual between
vision image and
and so what were some of the challenges
and interesting
results that you got from these
different types of work
okay i think the the challenge
was always real time so
because there were a lot of research a
lot of achievements doing
let's say important advances
scientifical advances
uh but the fact is that for most of the
applications they were
conceived for couldn't be applied
because
they were not real time so
we we were let's say strong
in developing our own heart by that time
computers were not so
uh operators if i speak like now
so having our own specialized
board and even a computer an industrial
computer
developed a company close to us
we could have some real-time
applications for tracking
systems and i think this was the first
thing that
project us and doing research and doing
advances in the field
and which project you said it was the
first in this project which project are
you referring to well this is
the the project the european project we
have with glass okay
in this we had this uh this first
application and then we had
we had a contract with a digital
corporation that was an agreement with
our computer engineering school in which
we developed a three division
also for tracking and
object recognition and this
that's another step push us
it was 1095 maybe
and who were some of the people that you
worked with on these various projects
okay it was our group uh in this case
was our group alone
and did you have some other um so you
mentioned the collaboration with lost
did you have some
okay with them uh well with these groups
with
uh with love and with oxford university
with matra
we have this project and we work with
phillips another eindhoven university
for the second project uh with with
with a more industrial application
and how was it working with it was it
different working with industry versus
working with
other academics yeah well
the fact is that we work with
companies close to us
for inspection for example of
of lighters so our first area were
mainly
vision that industrial applications were
envisioned because
uh the robotics applications at the
beginning was
basically in the car industry so the
they came to the big
companies uh that's already had
the the the robots coming from abroad
and so
they had more or less the technical
aspect solved
and so our application were a small
projects of
inspection industrial inspection so
something can be automated things that
that
the lighter has the at the beginning has
a very high or small flat
line then you automatically will
graduate
the hate and and it was the kind of
applications that that we did at the
beginning
and uh with that with the time
as as we began to see that there were
problems
someone came to us asking if we can uh
start with the company so we start a
company that
was robert mission robbie seg as the
name so we start developing some
industrial projects and at the end it's
it went to doing a big project with the
manufacturing of money in spain so at
the end they bought the company because
they
wanted to rely on a small company of
doing all the inspect
inspection of of the nodes and so
finally
we have to sell the company and
well we have been following it with that
and now we combine industrial projects
with uh research projects but mainly now
our research projects are mainly
oriented to
the medical field either
surgery either rehabilitation or
assistance to disable
sorry
um okay we'll edit that out um
so so was the company um your company
were you involved with them yeah
i was involved in the company for a
while and how was it working with the
with the startup for okay it's a
different experience
because okay
it was not then trying to
move more to the industrial projects
and seeing what happened there and
so we see different in many cases it was
a problem of
building a specific robot for welding or
for
because they appeared in it of
specialized detections
and industry and uh okay this
this has been experiential it it takes
not very long
because at the end at the end they
wanted to buy
the company so we
we created it because uh
we saw that we developed things and at
the end they
came up didn't came up
to to be useful somehow and this was the
way to be closer
to the industry but at the end you see
you never know
how how things will go and
maybe the success is too that you cannot
afford keeping with it
as a small company having the big
responsibility of
of of controlling of the quality control
of the
of the knowledge of of peseta that was
the
currency we had at that moment and how
do you feel
um those working with industry and also
having your own
um own kind of entrepreneurial moment
how did that affect your robotics work
what kind of
okay we have of course partial uh
dedication to to the company because
there were more specialized people there
and so it was fine to combine them both
in
teaching and doing workshops at the
university and
having more attention to more in
assessing not being there
all day working but more assessing
seeing
and solving let's say the problems that
are more difficult to solve
in a company than we were at the
university
did it bring up new prop i mean did you
you know realize that there were
particular
new issues perhaps that are out there
that are you might not
see in the laboratory of course
of course you see that industry is a
different thing like when
things work efficiently quickly simple
i mean at the university you see
challenges you see
what new things you can do and so this
is really a
different thing we need this work as
cheaper as possible as quick as possible
and so um and you mentioned also that
you
then also started working more with
doctors and in surgery
so can you tell us a little bit about
those experiences okay how is that
okay well it's it's really incredible
because
for us army particularly using
robotics industry manufacturing and this
was the beginning and
for maybe 10 years our work was this
and when they came to us and and see
that there were other fields
you really have to enter to other worlds
that was really fascinating because
at the beginning you think robotics is a
wide field
that has mechanics that has informatics
that has a lot of things
but at the end you see that is much more
than this because you have to work with
surgeons with therapists with
psychologists and so it really enriches
and
you see a big wall you see also that
robotics uh
okay at the beginning you say okay you
have you buy a robot arm and you program
and you put vision you put intelligence
and and you grow
but at the end you see that many many of
the real problems in surgery for example
are
specific devices so sometimes the net i
need to enter a balloon
inflate the balloon inside so i say i
want to program a robot and do things
like that and at the end the real
problem
was build strange things crazy things
from the point of view of what you're
doing just to
reach that point inflate and see and
give space to operate inside and
and so that the problems are completely
different and
and so you have to change your mind it's
also the question of language
so you talk to surgeons you talk to
now we are working in neuro
rehabilitation so we have to
to work with specialists
in neurologists and so and
so language way of thinking the problems
to solve
you see that really is not to control
alarm to do something
but to control a noun that has to
interact with the person that has to be
safe
that the person has to be aware of of
it understand or to do the robot that
adapts completely to the needs
of of the person that are continuously
changing
and that a person may be
unaware of the possibilities of have to
control it so
the robot has to adapt to the real need
and so it's
completely completely different and so
you mentioned that you built
um crazy new machines
yeah yeah sometimes you say i want to do
normal robotics and and you'll find that
that the things that are really that are
not other strange mechanisms and
inventions and things like that can you
describe some of the things that you
built and the applications that you
built
okay so
you you see that that uh some of them
are
difficult or real really the problem is
difficult to
to solve but uh like what i can say
okay specific
sometimes more more than building is is
is approached or defined in procedures
because you are talking with
the surgeon and sometimes it's difficult
to get funds from because
when the the the the one that asks you
for doing things is not a company having
money is
a hospital and what you you need
is okay you need this solution but what
we need money
for developing for building for paying
people working on that
uh so sometimes we were more more
projects
uh in which uh we more
dedicate to to to change the procedure
for example
uh we think more as in surgery we think
more are
mechanic people and and
so maybe one of the key things is
is that looking with our eyes
we change the way they work
because they are used to do some
pressure in a given way
and looking from the engineering point
of view you see okay this is more
practical
to doing like this entering this point
uh holding
and and having special small devices
to to whole things and
it's part because you know when you when
operating in the abdomen you have to
operate with
instruments entering into the abdomen
and
the difficulty of textures operation
for example of inserting uh
okay agreed for hernia and and
and under all right was a problem so
this more than building something was
how to proceed and how to
hold uh on the different points
and how did you find working with
surgeons and doctors like how did you
mediate these two different types of
expertise
okay i think it's it's uh a good
experience
because the fact that we have been
working with them
is because they felt that they needed
something
i always i always believe that robotics
is
an intelligent tool to help uh people so
they say
if you have instruments try to to help
us so they
they see the limitations they have with
the hands
and uh so
they open your mind on on different
problems
and and the experience is understanding
the real problems that
they have and imaginating in
this environment how to solve them
and when were you working on these
projects
when well
we have to combine with teaching so
we we work let's say partially half
time sometimes going to hospital or
seeing in the intervention
analyzing the kind of problem and then
bringing the problem back to the
university when it is possible getting
funds
from companies or from the hospital or
from
some uh calls
then try to attract people and assess
them
doing pgs or doing uh just a specific
task for
for solving this so assessing all these
courses
and what kinds of places did you get
funds from so you mentioned like which
companies or
okay sometimes it has been special
companies that need
or that are for example a company that
is developing prosthesis or
or artificial bones or things like that
want somehow to
to participate in projects or or helping
the hospital so some of them come
through the hospital
to us to solve to solve problems
sometimes not directly for direct
surgery but
for learning one of the things that
children sometimes
have is that they they don't know how to
operate or what is the best project or
not
so robotics is a way of systematizing
a process so we can do comparisons if
you do like this for example for
prophecies
of the shoulder if the process has to be
inserted more or less
how you know it is better we all are
different so if
uh one procedure and a different
procedure is better on the other you
never know if it is the procedure itself
or if it is
bounce the the tissue or or whatever
or the kind of rehabilitation you do
after and
so in this case well these companies
that bill bonds
were interested in investing and
prosthesis they were interested in
investing
on on developing some knowledge in this
sense
sometimes the money comes from the
relation with the hospital with
with their providers on another school
from coals
of projects we have been working
in cooperation with the national
research program
with continuously we had had a
continuous cooperation with them
trying to advance
and was this something that you started
in the 90s
or we started working in charge area
about yeah 92 93
and from them we have continuous
equality
and so what were some of the you
mentioned um
you know making some changes in process
what were some of the other
um kind of robotics challenges or
challenges for you
technically or intellectually that came
out of this type of work
okay
maybe the technical problems is the the
the
the physical architecture of the robot
because uh for example we are
when when the surgeons have a problem we
study
them in the lab we develop a software we
work in
control algorithms based on vision and
the sensors we need in order to provide
some intelligence and you work with
industrial robots the robots we have in
the lab for
for research but then you see that the
robot is not really
it has not really the adequate
architecture for doing that and so the
challenges is
is that and sometimes to build we have
built our
uh our armed robot we have uh now start
a new company in surgical robots
just to solve the problem that the
robots you have and not adequate
or not are adequate to
to evaluate and to progress and to
advance because all the main control
aspects are solved
basically operating as pixel shelf
but then you find that the physical
architecture the economy is not adequate
so that has made us to build our own
company and
build our named robot and the specific
architecture and our residency
because we need random arms to be able
to reach
for example for laparoscopy all the
abdominal area
so these are the charges the new designs
and what kinds of arms were you using in
the lab that what kind of arms
right that turned out not to be
okay we have the the conventional robot
we have
adb robot robotic arm a stable robot we
have
a cougar robot and this is more typical
we have now the backstairs the two arms
robot these are the robots we have in
the lab just for developing
new knowledge and intelligent systems
and can you tell us a little bit more
about your arm and your
new company for them okay so we are
working in this new company uh that of
course it
has a long trajectory because so you
know that in these areas we need a long
process for
for for having accreditation and
regulations and so and so we are in this
period
we start this company in 2012
and we have developed our own robot it
has taken a lot of time previous to that
to see how how how to
transfer all this development all the
advances in
assisted the operation we have been
developing for years
uh our content with mayo clinics has
encouraged us to to really have
something that is really useful or
interesting not just
being in the lab and okay we are now in
this
long process we have the robot we have
technology but it is in the process of
passing all the regulation
and then let's see the possibilities of
commercialization
that we will see in the future and so
you mentioned you were
working with the mayo clinic
okay okay we have been in touch with
them uh
through courses and masters well we have
uh
the head of of uh surgery
on bio clinics in arizona coming to
barcelona for a course for our teaching
and well we met in this course
we visited our lab
we he saw the possibilities the interest
for the clinical process to
to advance so they invited us to to go
there
and we presented our research to the
group and from that it
starts let's say this cooperation this
medical assessment
to see how to proceed and so we have
also
a big team of hospitals in barcelona
interested in
in what we're doing and so this
well all the clinical process will be
solved
thanks that we have these strong ties
with
with them that of course they are
interested
in testing and seeing how to proceed so
how does the process
go of kind of going from this research
basically a research robot that you've
developed to something
that's a commercializable medical okay
uh
well the process is terrible
unfortunately if if you really want to
go ahead you need some expert person
that that
do more the the the
control and the guiding all this
procedure
so we technically solve all the steps
that is more specialized in
built in in starting companies in
launching companies
that those are all the regulatory
process
so uh fortunately we have not to be
really there because we we don't know
really how to do
and when we think what we thought in the
past
how will we proceed to say well there's
no way to go that
that way but finally we have someone
that that is pushing us to do all the
necessary steps so
we need to have this we have to do this
demonstration now we have to do the
the the first trials with uh with
animals and okay all all these like
a dictate that we are proceeding like
this
and where do you get funding to do all
of those steps
uh well by now we have private funding
so we have the first part of course come
from
the research in the university and in
the institute of bioengineering
with with which i am also
working now uh and and so as a result of
the research
we could build a first prototype uh
but then when we uh finally fix a start
uh spin-off then it is our problem to
get
funding for that and this came from
private funding
so we have some patents and we have to
convince
people and invest people that that
what we are doing is good that is
promising that it has
risk of course and
they have relief so we we have been
getting money to
advance and is your funding from within
spain or the european union or
uh no this is probably by now is catalan
fund
um and you so are you going to be
commercializing mainly in europe or
in first first in europe and then in us
but first the first step is europe
yeah um so what are some other projects
that you've worked on over the years
that you'd like to mention
okay we are working now in neuro
rehabilitation too
that is also a really amazing area
because you have to deal with robots
where i
wear about robots so in that case it is
the person behind
and not all and not only the physical
aspects but also psychological
uh if it is controlled by by the brain
by thinking uh this is we have a
collaborative project with other groups
in spain
and so we have to combine let's say
physiological signals with sensor
signals
and we have also to combine the action
of robotics
with the action of external electrical
stimulation
so that means acting on the
limb directly with the robot or acting
on the muslin
through electrical stimulation and so
there are different things this
is a kind of perturbation to our control
systems from from the point of view of
of physiology we force the user
to use their own body when possible so
if the signal doesn't reach the muscle
it is externally that we stimulate the
muscle to do that
okay other groups do this but the
exoskeleton
has to notice and has to react
on how the hand or the leg
moves and accordingly control the
the different joints to to really do
the reaching action or the walking
action
needed so that puts special problems on
on control
because it has to be in the case of
working stable
and safe for the user so you cannot
force the user
and at the same time we have to let the
user
do as much as possible because the user
has not to be a passive element it has
to be active
but working naturally and with if
possible the capabilities of relearn
the actions of working or reaching or
repressing also
and who are some of your collaborators
on this project
we have uh the thesis that is a
group on madrid this is the council of
research instead of the different
centers of country of research in spain
we have different groups in cerebral
science and sebastian
working differently in virtual reality
because
the stimulation of the user to do
rehabilitation is important
or using in specific batteries and
okay all of the things involved and the
group of servers that is working on
brain machine interface so we have to
integrate
all these different aspects and we are
using cooperating with the hospital of
the replaceables
and provide the users that really need
this technology
and so it's a very nice construction
and i i was just looking a little bit at
your website
and also i noticed that you kind of part
of what you work on
um which definitely makes sense as
you're since you're doing so much work
that's kind of integrating robotics with
people in different ways and also on
human modeling
humans could you tell us a little bit
about that aspect of your work how do
you
kind of integrate what the person is
doing into
okay the robot behaves okay
this is more in the area of assistive
technology
so we have a scenario for all this
development
and a roboticity kitchen so
when you expect that a robot assists you
it is necessary that the robot
understand what you're doing
so in this aspect we use vision
cameras 3d cameras to recognize the
the human movement and so if we detect
or if we can interpret what i'm doing
is like an assist and a person can help
you if you
if he or she knows what you want to do
and if you don't reach it can do so
what we are working is in detecting the
intention of the human
through these movements uh knowing the
sequence of
let's say the context what is happening
so if possible knowing
all the steps on a natural action so if
i'm holding a
a glass and i have a bottle of water i
don't think that it goes
to the fire but it helps to
pour it so there is some actions that
expect
another not and this helps to contribute
to to
to to do the rob at the capability of
the site
how to proactively uh not needing the
user say
i need this move to that position and do
so
not to be explicit but more natural and
being helped and what are some of the
different kinds of findings that you've
had in that area that you
think are exciting okay
so you find uh well i think that the
main problem is that
everything you want to do it needs every
time you
want to decide recognize the movements
etc everything needs a lot of
computation
so it is important always to try to
simplify
a maxim see what is the
important information you have to get
to to conceive what is happening so
that's
this simplification of of the problem
that is
one of the main research known to
simplify algorithms because
you have a big amount of data images
provide a lot of data
and you have to deal with with it
so what are some of the ways that you've
been using to deal with that
the ways to deal with that well i study
what does exist
think test and try i think is the normal
way of of seeing the state of the art
and
try to imaginate how to do
things to improve looking at the
disadvantages of every technology of
fabric methodology
and try to solve these small things in
order to
improve a little bit on this because
many many people is working in in the
same area
everywhere so what you can expect is
doing small contributions uh in in some
of them
and being interested in a system then
can
produce a step further in this work do
you
collaborate with any psychologists or
you mentioned youtube yeah
well we have uh we collaborate with some
assistive centers
that deal with with disables us just to
to see a little bit there are a lot of
things that have
that has to resolve before really uh
treating with the special needs but you
have to be aware
not dedicate a lot of work to things
that at the end won't be useful
and so uh by now we are more having
assessment
and then than a real day-to-day
collaboration because
the the the fact of recognizing activity
there is a lot to do before
really having real users
for that and so do you also do user
studies
with some of the clients of those places
or some of the
patients or residents um
the question is what do you bring
sorry do you bring the some of the
people who might need assistance to try
out the robots or
uh observe them okay uh
in the case of uh things like a big
infrastructure yeah you need to bring
the users there
uh in the case of excess skeletons we go
to the hospital
besides they are more severe disabled
people or
patients that really cannot move easily
so we have the integration aspects and
all the evaluation
in hospital but of course in a kitchen
environment we
you have to bring but in that case they
are users that really cannot move
around and the eye means that they can
have an author of life so they can move
and they can come to the lab can you
tell us a little bit about
maybe some of your students or other
people that you've worked closely with
what have they gone on to do okay so we
have
different levels of students we have
undergraduate and we have
phd students and they well they are
different some of them
stay for some time without just
half a year doing his final master
project
and uh so it's it's nice because it's uh
relative so
we change continuously they are just
studying so they
know the last uh the last development
the last
energy that have just learned and this
is a nice experience but
they have also to learn a lot with us so
you spend times
teaching them and then you have the phd
students
that already have some background and we
have them for a longer time
so they can be more like them like
more colleagues and working together and
i think so any phd students that have
gone on to stay in robotics
okay in general they like to feel and
and unfortunately we have not much
possibilities of staying
so but when possible if they can they
stay
sometimes they prefer to go abroad for a
postdoc
because it's it's also a nice experience
to to see different places
uh so it's diverse diversity
but unfortunately we cannot grow
infinitely in the university
now we are not in a very bad i mean a
very good situation
because we are not and due to the crisis
we cannot grow so fortunately now it's
very easy that when they finish their
left
industry or to somewhere else
and since we're talking about students
now we ask everybody
this question but um if you could give
some advice
or something to think about for young
people who are interested in robotics
what would that be okay
okay i think it's important to to think
on the
kind of applications of the orientation
on the ethics of robotics
on the efficiency of the work
so trying to really solve wealth
problems because it's a
it's a very wide area so it's easy that
the projects solve things but don't
reach anything in particular
and but mainly i will say that
that's important the applications the
orientation of robotics because
the robotics has a wide field of
applications and
and i think they have they can be very
good
they can be as a tool
as an assistant tool uh they can be good
we are working in a medical field so
we basically work in robotics
for 80 people so that is a
fantastic area of research we consider
and so many people come because of that
because they
they like the field and well that's it i
would say
um i also noticed that you
did a significant amount of um
service work both for ieee you were the
vice president of
ras also one of the founders of euron
yeah and of the spanish robotics chapter
could you tell us a little bit about all
of those okay thanks
thanks go yeah sometimes unexpectedly
you'll find the opportunity i think
mainly things
start with a trip to japan in which we
saw the
the need of of of having a little bit
organization having an organization in
europe because we saw that
america has more or less a network and
japan was a has a network and
they were organized and in europe
nobody knew each other or very few
so it was decided in this joint
collaboration trip or
japan europe uh meeting that
we get organized to do something so from
that
from that discussion it was decided to
to try to
to get some funds from the european
community
and so part of the people
that were discussing on that created
this this organization
and so you are getting involved involved
you see that
the challenges the interest the real
effect
because euron was a fantastic thing i
think that it has changed the way
and how europe uh researchers
contact each other and know each other
very well and even after
the eight years that we have been formed
it has been
able to survive alone and keep doing
every year an annual meeting
that brings us together and and and
to and a common effort so from that you
are getting involved and involved and
okay that's what happened you see that
you can contribute here you see
yeah and and so i get involved also in
ieee we organized and was the general
chair of ike 200
2005. and uh
well this is a lot of a lot of effort a
lot of
contact with people and also opens
those to to collaborate with other
people and
see how you can contribute to the to
this community
from that i get involved with com for us
and then to some responsibilities there
being aware that there were a chapter in
most of the countries and not in spain
so
someone has to do this so i did
and and so uh in
spain there is oh this is a nice network
of
organizations so we introduce this other
let's say
uh hut uh of unite
team people and having some visible face
to the ieee rust society
and how do you how would you describe
robotics in spain
um you know are there particular things
perhaps that are paid
attention to more than other countries
or um
i see that there are a lot of mobile
robots
i think too much for now i think it's
too much but
many many people is working on mobile
robots
very few in in surgery three
four groups that are doing some research
in surgery
and other groups in rehabilitation and
what's fine but
but i think the the the big amount of
researches in mobile robots
navigation is popular maybe i don't know
but it's really actually i would say
it's the beta
and for this trip that you said you made
to japan that was a
motivation to start here on when was the
trip
and where did you go and who else went
and
it was it must be 99 it was 99
yeah it was organized by
the fra the miss on the front
or the mission francaise and japan
i don't know what it was in japan japan
society of robotics
and and so they were more or less to
chair
a typical workshop to share experiences
to see each other
and there was a small delegation and i
was invited by georgia
of toulouse to join this committee
and it was really a nice experience and
and a good
seat to to grow all this so it was
really fruitful
and who else um worked with you to start
up here on
okay well i think the the the key person
were
uh henrik christensen who was the
leader by then uh and in the team it was
oh well there were a lot of people from
italy and from france
i don't know who was there hermann
brocknicks
and was also one of the
key people there and that later on has
been the
the key person to the keeper person to
to
to follow with that uh
fredica tillman was involved bruno
siciliano was involved
and and what was some of the process
were there people from cuca industry
and there was some people and now the
the follow-up
is more combining industry
and university research centers and so
and what were some of the ways that how
did you kind of start getting people
engaged or
being able to talk more together what
were some of the things okay i think
people is very prone to cooperate
so if there is something is happening
people want to be there
so nobody wants to be a part so it was
really easy to push
and after their first idea
there were a meeting organized i think
it was in london
and so many people volunteered to go
and then they start to organize it was
easy at the beginning because there were
some funds
to to do meetings so if something is
happening in europe you are in europe
something is happening in robotics you
can get some fun
although partially to to go so you are
as researcher i'm almost obliged to go
and participate and see what happened
and see how you can contribute and how
you can benefit because
at the end is what the benefit of all of
us
is what makes things grow and so
in this sense it's a natural
so you call you say we organize this
thing and it's a natural
you just need to disseminate so people
is aware of that
and and then it grows along and where
did these initial funds come from
from europe from the eu yeah yeah well
there were this
small committee preparing a proposal and
then
from the meeting for organizing this and
and also create this this feeling of
of europe as unity on research
it was funded by the community so this
money was
basically to organize things and to
launch these things it was
it was repeated it was renovated for two
terms
and at the end we grow
enough to say it has to be kept
alive and so now there is a society
and there are people that subscribe to
society
pay for that and it leaves our
companies are there so they they fund
so partially and as
somebody who's been involved in these
various organizations
and also as one of the members here of
the all all female organizing community
do you see what do you see as being some
of the challenges and possibilities
okay it's really difficult getting more
women involved because
around robotics there is less women than
than men than men so
while we are trying ever well i think
from the university
we're trying to attract people to
technology and uh and we don't success
much and
we do special sessions we do special
talks
and and this is difficult because it's
like a natural education
environment that you find all along your
life
and probably there are also some
feelings for isological
neutral or preferences and
specialization i find that
in robotics working in the medical field
they really attract small female so
from the point that i'm working on
medical robotics
i fell around more students that that
come to our class so i was teaching
robotics
with maybe less than 10 percent females
and
medical robotics with maybe 30 female so
things change but i think it's difficult
to
focus this point because um you can
motivate
but you motivate when they are there
but sometimes it's difficult that they
really enrich doing the
specific studies to reach the positions
and then when you have
levels of responsibilities also well
working conditions labor conditions are
also difficult
and sometimes some of the women that
reach
some level don't don't want or cannot
further due to other job positions
or family responsibilities and so
so it's not an easy problem i think it's
an unsolved problem
and there are a lot of initiatives
trying to
to let a discuss debate uh
find promotional things uh
motivate women to to to fight
for things but it's difficult because
the environment
is not always in favor of
of getting much involved and i mean do
you think it's a
something of a priority for some of the
organizations
so for example the um
the committee that was formed here for
ikra
with um an all-female membership
um is that part of a desire to um
to kind of get to show more women that
it's possible okay i think i think
that is i think there are special
actions that are surprising
but maybe there are points that focus
something happens
why there are few females around in this
area
and so these actions are more let's say
psychologically influencing
and being aware that something happens
why why many students
start working and then when doing
activities responsibilities they don't
come up
to higher levels so it's a way to to
pay attention uh to this fact and
and because sometimes you find things
normal
this is only men and it's normal and
maybe sometimes you need some reaction
and say okay
this is not normal in that case there's
no special reason
why there is not there are no feelings
here
and so this is a special action that i
was surprised myself at the beginning
when i
i was told that that it will be
organized by female
and it gets surprised and say it's good
but it's like okay it's something that's
push and and try to to
take attention on on this fact and so
it's
in the sense i find it's good and we
expect good results and say okay women
can do
good things do you know how that
decision
came about okay they were mentioning
that it was
a talk with george v i don't know
exactly what churchill
initiative or maybe due to the lag or
i don't know exactly well thank you
um is there is there anything
else you would like to add or
um any projects or people that you've
worked with or anything that you think
we'd like to smell
they talk a lot
thank you very much okay thank you