ready okay so if we could start with you
telling us your name and where you were
born and when
my name is hirochika i was born
in 1942
the cima city southern part of japan
and where did you what was your family
like and where did you go to school
early on
what was your family like and where did
you go to school
early on
so family um and
then school what kind of school did you
do ah my
yes yes my family is not
special they are very
that is for also university is okay
just only the university i mean you can
tell us if you
you know what kinds of things you were
interested in as a younger
person in my childhood
i since my childhood i
like to build something
if for material brain for radio
and so on and therefore i like
to go to the university but particularly
for engineering or technology
and so i chose university of tokyo
and going to the
faculty of engineering
[Music]
and when i choose my measures
i am thinking about shall i go to
mechanical engineering or electrical
engineering
so that is a very good time
when i i am entering in
university that is 1960
so the automobile is now going
and also the electoral
electronics is emerging so therefore
i'm wondering which is good for me
but i like really to make
some something that moves
therefore i choose mechanical
engineering
but i love electronics too much
therefore
when i decided to go to mechanical
engineering
to study a subject but
i want to pick up
the most interesting part of electronics
so that is the church
of my course in
school university
and before you got to university you
mentioned you like to make things like
model airplanes and
how did you get introduced to those
kinds of
in that time honestly that is
not so far from the after the war so
the economy is very bad the
family is not so affordable uh to give
such kind of material and so on so i
just
see the magazines or the modern aircraft
or something
and all that everything i'm thinking
about too
amazing so most of the
design and business
convenient things around my
home or something so i always
want to realize the real things
so that is a motivation of my life i
think
and when you decided for to do
engineering was engineering
a popular kind of field in japan at the
time
yes yes yes in japan
engineering and technology is a very
high
ranking for instance in
england maybe the banking is higher
and the engineering is not so high in
the society
but about in japan the most law school
is going to the bureaucracy
and going to the step up and also
other careers medical doctors and also
similarly japan in japan is
engineering and making the technologists
engineers is a position
in the society because people who
make things by themselves have the value
of the society and particularly in my
situation
the economy is going back compared with
right now going down so therefore
i think it is a very good way so i think
anyhow the strongest motivation is
i like it very much honestly my mother
suggested me go to law school
because law school gives some bureaucrat
or something
going to the step up in the government
and so on
my father suggested me to a medical
doctor
because he want to be but i do not
like a biology and so on
and also it's not like the law school or
something
to talk about people is not good for me
therefore i choose what i dearly
and i think my decision
was correct
um so how how did you get into school
what was the process of
actually getting into the university of
tokyo which was a very
highly placed university yeah
oh that is just only after the
i was born in the southern part the
local area
far beyond from tokyo the
south end of the prefecture so the gap
between the
tokyo standard and the kawasaki male
standard is
enormous so honestly it is very hard
to get into the university of tokyo that
the narrowest
gate there for the entrance examination
but unfortunately i succeeded once
so i tried entrance examination once
and that is successful so no other
things other than
not so special preparation
for the
interesting examination and the
difference
of the tokyo area and the central area
and
some other there is a big difference
therefore i was very happy
if i were in the tokyo area
everybody works very hard for internal
examination
so i was forced to work but in the
area without doing anything
the regular is not so good so therefore
i am very very happy
just thinking about how to make sound
something like that so when you got into
mechanical engineering um what kind of
work were people doing what was the
the school like what kind of in the
university university is just
education the real thing is to go to the
graduate school and that is the
beginning of the research and my career
that was 1965
i graduated so that is
the stand standard almost very
no travel course so i when
i graduated and entered into the
graduate school i chose
one laboratory one professor that is
very popular
and very popular but i
fortunately get into the position
each labrador has two seats
and they are i i was very happy to get
into
one of them
i was first
get to the graduate
school laboratory my css advisor
said to us to to to
friends i prepare
i want to one person from mechanical
vibration another is automatic control
and one
vibration is relates to the lateral
vibration of the train
so i think i almost
know about the lateral vibration train
that is important
but i i really know about it so i do not
like
to do i suggest my friend and don't you
do that
then he said yes so therefore his
topics was designed then a professor
of my system advisor said
about the automatic control i will
consider leave
for a while and one week later
a professor professor fujii
his name they said to me
do you do you like to build
a mechanical hand to turn a crank
he said so when i
heard about it i cannot understand what
it means but it is very very
attractive to the mechanical hand and so
on
therefore i certainly yes i do
without knowing anything and that is the
instant yeah but
i studied robotics
but after then professor did not say
anything about it when i i
talked to the professor my sister's
adviser
what shall we do then
try anything figure it out yourself yes
to try anything and after that we'll
discuss
that is almost five years
anyhow in such a way
i decided to fix but
after a graduate after getting
a degree and return back to the
university
that is about more than
15 years later and professor
said i was wondering at that time
the topics is good
for students or not if the topic is not
promising
it is dangerous therefore make this one
student great
his life was
so he's wondering but
he said i was very happy
because you succeeded in this that is a
story
and so how did you start working on the
mechanical hands
did you know about robots or were there
[Music]
lovely things to build something there
i tried to make a hand and that
sensor to control to some
mechanical control and so on so try
try every day just i enjoyed
and i finished
my master's thesis after
two years then i write papers
and that is very successful in that time
i have no computers
and after that i proceeded to the
phd course that is three years more the
master is two years
three three-year doctor so five years
is at least we have to in japan
so when i went proceed to the
doctor course i am afraid
i am not sure along
this way i cannot
i am not sure these topics will be their
degree or not so i really a
serious result to change my topics
at that time i one year i
tried to change topics to adaptive
control
for airplanes particularly for
some subsonic areas
that is very unstable they are
controlling
some subsonic states to keep
the stability of their brain that is
also very
topics of the day so i studied them very
much
and analyzed them so
but i found
most important point of the airplane
dynamics it depends on the
characteristic
tips of the wing
the wing shape is completely
determined by in
nasa or something american standard
there
all the standard is
given by the american standard
therefore if i go to
this field i cannot
have complete freedom therefore i
stopped to do it so i decided to return
back
to the mechanical and so on and started
again and
i tried to find some manipulator
i found some company have tried to make
manipulators
not a robot but a bilateral manipulated
master train
to handle the nuclear
isotope or something so that is also
said
magic hand or something
so i found it then i
i knocked my professor i want to use
this message which is some company
developed it so it is possible to use
that
the professor asked to the company
and a the company person is the
student of his professor and
that company person said yes
we did and we finished it so we did not
use it
if you like you can use it so
we broke so zero or money
but after that i have to replace and
change and so on and the
most hard thing is to get computer
computer other times very very
difficult to get in
japanese areas so in that case
university of tokyo
has a project of artificial heart
for controlling by computer and so on
therefore a medical department has one
computer
that is equipped
to control the
artificial heart for gold in gold
sheep that is the size of the
exercise and so i i planned to use
but unfortunately at that time
university of tokyo
is a serious radical student
and opposing to some part
in medical school and and they have
the student power student power across
university for one year wow
wow so there are i am
seriously afraid the student took the
symbolic time
for several months and every a
radical student gathered from and that
is like the culture
so and in the background or something
that is
that kind of movement just at that time
so
therefore that policy was down
and the laboratory was also closed
so i'm also
lost everything but
after that is settled down that is the
year of
1906
spring of 1968
when the last student is
getting out and they inversely return
back
to the normal situation then i start
started again and at that time professor
my sister's advisor tried to
purchase computers to control
my mechanical arms
but unfortunately the computer
which will be arriving to my laboratory
is about six months later
that is too late
before that i have to finish
my scissors but
it is also very lucky that company
computer company they kindly
lend me a another other computer
before that about the contract is just
only six months
so from april 1
to september the end of september
so that's the limit of the use of my
computer during that
i changed interface and added
end problem and completed
see the movie last night
that is a movie that i i think that is
the beginning
of the
[Music]
the point of the research is
to use a new
numerical control machine for a machine
tools or something
computer makes all machines
faithfully obeys
therefore if some some
lord are computer controlled up
to get some limit then they do it
so therefore if you grasp just
grab the grass if the order is a little
bit
smaller then it crushes but we
we do not do that because we have the
sense of
a reaction force compliance and so on
that is necessary for making the text
for realizing
dexterity of the manipulator that's the
key point
of the topics but i didn't know
when a professor suggested me five years
before but
the conclusion
which i get after the after
four years and so on that is the point
therefore i
realized and made the touch sensing
and the whole sensing and therefore
one put something on the floor
after landing with this
neighbor like this so in order to do
that
this object has no sensors
now if this hand touches
their hand have the sense of touch
sensor that's okay
but this object usual object has no
sensors
so no sensor things we must
know the tattoo that is through
this reaction of course so that's the
point
using this we can carefully uh peg you
into hole
and turning the ground rotation and
that's the point
i think maybe this is the most
important point of the study for
robotics
i think i i hope this trial
opened the dirma for the assembly and so
on
and what kind of sensors were you using
because you modified the arm
yeah yes
yesterday if we have a good
microphone and i i would like to say
but a sensor you have touch sensors
i made about
16 touch sensors on hand so many hands
by only the touch sensor we can take
some uh which part was on
but the sensor to detect
force there are many a
way one is to get some
special sensors at least right now they
do but at that time
we have no touch sensors therefore
and anyhow i will
you know feedback system that is that
you know how server system then
that's right then the position server
system the
computer gives a position reference then
subsystem feedbacks
to keep that feedback signals
to zero so that is a system of feedback
therefore usually the numerical control
gives the command by the difference
then the sound system could
very precisely follow but
the difference of the reference and
feedback signal
the error signal includes some reaction
force
so uh taking that reaction force oh no
no
error signals and making the filters uh
detect some disturbances
so uh this is something like this
so this is the error so this error
signal
includes the result of the disturbance
they were using this system
so that's why no not special things
i think right now pr2 of miraculous
using that system to give the very
stable
not so sensitive enough but very stable
to achieve a way conventional way to do
so when you finished when you finished
after five years
what happened then what did you decide
to do ah it is also
interesting
when a i have to find some job
that is a serious moment before
completing my season
i have no time to think about what i
should do
from that time after i completed
the cases
and i started to
[Music]
search a german so on a professor
suggested
to visit some university as assistant
so i try to go but
that institute and the university is a
service system
but when i talked about the professors
their thinking is very hard so
i don't like this way i
do not like to go and
after i completed my experiment
the japanese big company statue is also
starting a robot and he knows
they know about my work so
after completed they asked me to
teach the result of how you
decide did that work so there were
professors suggested to teach them
i don't know the background but anyhow i
went
several weeks to go to the research
laboratory
to explain my program and from
how did i do that there were
that company want me to come
but i do not want to go
i need freedom at that time
occasionally i met professor shirai
next interview person
he is a one year editor he
after he received doctors
then he get the electoral technical
laboratory
and i met him how is what are you doing
now
in electron technically i'm doing some
vision systems
is it interesting a phrase to us
so then shall
that rapidly hire me or not
[Applause]
she asked because i have to fight
then okay i tried
to talk to his boss
then tomorrow the day the next day
he gave a telephone call yes
our boss will hire you come soon
great great so that time of
more than 40 years that is so free stage
the situation of society a japanese
society
is not a severe competition so and
the economic condition is not so good
but they are very very aggressive
very very affordable and therefore they
reflect
in such a way i went i joined
its laboratory at the time
that you were doing this work were there
other people who were doing similar
things anywhere
about robotics in university you know
just only myself as a professor
suggested me he suggested me
before me and my sisters are suspected
to do but every other
people do not want to do that so that is
just only myself
and also at waseda university some group
is trying to some robotic mothers they
have some
laboratory and
the idea research competition
uh start from 1970
when i joined to electoral technical
laboratory
in each year at that time i had
a project to make engaging product
in other words hand-eye systems so the
vision system
and manipulator system making together
a simple visionary
tasks by air control at that time that
is the
competition i think at that time
that kind of growth in the world
i think in united states three
stanford mit and sri
they are doing the big group to do
and in england edinburgh university
and in japan too one is electro
technical
another is that so that is a
sixth regroup is challenging
to the computer driven
robot so that is the early beginning
of my career and within that
joining that my background is
mechanical engineering and in that
electro technology they have a
background of electric
engineering and computer science and
also the mathematics and so on
they gathered together and building
systems
and they think about it they put a
big money in that time when we think
back
so in such a way we eat very young
person age about the average ages
average ages 30 or so more than
10 people is doing every day and night
at the laboratory to build something and
it is too much
usually when
somebody is entered joined to the
institute for laboratory a
first three months is a education
usually but in my case they have a plan
to open the result of
a hundred systems in september
so every
from about five months so therefore
they need my effort
soon so just only one month's
education i go into it was very happy
so after that i joined and then
and i completed handle system
within three months i did
three important papers at that time
one is the operating system one is the
handpie system
just and another is visual freedom of
motion
with its riser and that is
really required within the
first so i think the
[Music]
first success experience is very very
important for
careers and so on now if i
fail the first attempt say i don't know
things
so when i educate student
i try to give the opportunity
to feel the success for the student and
so
and in such a way we succeeded very much
and they continued and the success
of the result is opened to the
newspaper and at that time not so
popular in db and so on
the result is spread
within the world and so
electro technical laboratory and mit
stands
for edinburgh is a
collaborating and competing together so
that is a very
a good aid for me most of the people
who is engaged in the robotics research
particularly for android system all i
know
most of the researchers
i know just only the papers
at that time information is not so
enough
very small channel therefore
we have enough time to try right now too
much
internet and too much information
so researchers seems to find
time to do their research
how did you get the papers from other
people
reading some journals
did etl have a library so they brought
yes yes yes so that is very good if i
was in university the budget is limited
but the etl is a japanese the electoral
technical laboratory
the most advanced robot and that is also
the
government policy to promote electronics
there were many money so there were many
libraries and so it was funded by metis
yes right and so did they have a was
there a vision for using these kinds of
hyundai systems for industrial robot or
what
why did they decide to fund that kind of
project
at that time actually the inside
industrial robot
is emerging it's just spraying or
spot learning so no computers
particularly most most of the spring is
playing with
not so much control so therefore
they say the result will go into the
industry but honestly they want to
develop the leading edge
of the technology who are looking for
the 10 years
on so on of course the
government many officers and the
laboratory
managers will expect this is important
for the industrial robot and also for
future
japanese industry but that is going to
say to get money they say but
they uh they make us very free trying to
do
the first thing the most good thing in
the world
that is so it is a very good age
how many people were on the team i think
in less than 20 about
about about 10
for a manipulator control manipulator
and about five six uh seven
four vision that is different trouble
silence and
uh automatic controllability
so that is about 10.5 or something like
that
and were there who were the other people
that you worked with closely or
most of the people is going to the
universities and professors
so where i can count everybody
so to me that is
in some sense that is a
place of my good usage
to everybody at that time
and so after this big first big success
what kind of projects did you
enough money first a open
experiment is successful therefore the
funding
increases very much
and we can
keep enough money since then
but i
do not stay
so long time each year
he is invited
to mit
about one year and at that time staying
at
ai laboratory and i found some
intelligence artificial intelligence so
that is
the marriage of the computer and the
intelligence robot
so that is the way of the finding
intelligent robot system actually so
i did mit yesterday i skipped the movie
but one thousand inch 0.000 inch a
clearance very precise assembly it was
done
in 1973. after that
and then the university of tokyo
suggested me
to come back to university
it takes a long time to negotiate
not myself and the
university but the problem is the
eta and the university because if i move
to the
university that is also some problem
so in order to keep keep the
peace within these two days it takes
long time
more than two years or so yeah i
gradually
talked and moved to university
so etl sent you to mit
three years and moved to university
and during uh i'm staying in
each year i was not funded very happy
days
the jobs the work which
i have to do just doing designs
so the first seven first eight years
since after getting a degree
that is 100 design
that was very good return back to
university
very busy student at the summer meeting
and so on
so when you went to mit what was going
on there and who was there
mit professor marvin minsky
and also just at the time
the laboratory had changed the
patriarchy and at that time
for instance the people who is now
coming
yes
student and tommaso rodriguez is also
student when i visited
so so long time ago
and what kind of work were they they
doing
the rudolph opera is trying at the time
to make the
[Music]
local tragedy system
for his ability diseases
so the higher software and the
geopolymer
is a control method and
minsky and i mean
but he likes to build a machine very
much
so he understands
and did they have any robots
in mit i was supported by japanese
government
so i have no obligation instead
they have no request to me
so it is sometimes good it is after god
so otherwise uh if i found
something by myself they have not they
say anything so
honestly at that time first several
months
it is very very hard to communicate my
english at that time it is very very
hard to respond so
and thinking about getting their
computer system different from the
computer is very
enormous at that time so oh
yes a big computer i'm thinking about
japan
small computer we can't compete them
with each other and so on
yeah i will teach you know
bodies and think about and
but as long as i stay there
i have to do something in the
laboratory and to give some result that
is
the 1 000 inch the precise assembly
tasks
i think they are applying the mini robot
proposal
to darp at that time but nobody is doing
that series
so i think that is very good at that
time
did they have one of the did they had an
arm
or yes they have uh
not some devices it is already
[Music]
did somebody and interface together but
nobody
is thinking about to use it so
for me it is easy to do it because i
have experience
in university as to how to do a civilian
song
so that kind of things will be defined
and programmed in precisely so to me it
is easy
but the result is very good testing
and what kinds of things you mentioned
that in mit you kind of learned about ai
artificial intelligence are there other
things that you
you noticed or learned while you were in
your mind that were different
yes it is interesting
interview i
stayed i went to
ai robert to learn and
study intelligence ai quality ai
and to look for a good topics
on ai but after
staying there i
know i couldn't do
the reason is in my english capability
i cannot believe about the ai
because the result must be discussed and
talked
each other in english with the top
ranking people
in that case if i think something i
cannot
express maybe less than 10 percent of
my thinking so therefore if i go into
that maybe i cannot win
but if i do
do the experiment and show the result
by reality then i can do everything
therefore
the thing which i should do
in my life is not to do
the ali but to do the reality
of the control and the vision connection
and so on
and when i return back i need
i think i like intelligence
also if somebody younger
generation younger people has
interest about intelligence then i will
support that
in such a way after i moved to the
university
actually i had a very good student who
want to do the intelligence matters then
i cannot teach them intelligence but i
can understand
what are they are doing correct or not
meaningful or not suggest that
that is the way in which i was taught
in my university my sister's advisers
it then after them we will talk
so try to so it is a way
to give their original
to find their own ideas that is
important in the university environment
so when you got to the university what
was the environment like how did you
start your lab
[Music]
100 times different university
so almost 0 very small budget
each year we enjoy the budget
but it is very good for me
to student
is interested to do new things
so very smart student pays their
eyes on my back so they come into
the laboratories the thing which i do
is to encourage them and to make the
room and atmosphere and something
some small things to challenge so
the start is very economically
a budget and very small but with a small
budget
our power of intentional students
challenge many more
and gradually we get the hand and
accumulated everything and so
at that time i
when i moved i moved to
university in age 36
at that time i think our
my retirement age was age 60
strictly in in university of japan
so there were i am 24 years
from that time so i have friends
i have decided to do
the intelligent robot system in my
laboratory
the top ranking laboratory because i
have nothing so
i can use that therefore
i have a very long time
important topics is manipulation
mobility vision and perception
and intelligence and also integration
system integration
so we have five topics then in my
laboratory
i decided to do everything
in my laboratory if five
students comes five students will do one
thing
so they are doing different things
so they can cooperate and competing and
cooperating
and also when we give the topic
for the student i have to give
the topics to the student if
he goes into the doctor's course
then five years so the topics must
be good enough
if that student will complete
in five years time so there are
very good topics will be given
and i do not teach anything
so i i just observing and talking
and let's do something
and preparing some
things but today i have
no materials right now but i
went my final lecture when i retired
in university our university
give a memorial final mixture
that is really the final lecture at that
time
i have one seed the history of my
laboratory
so every year what kind of things
is done by food and so on so
the accumulation of the vision
development
manipulates parallel manipulators
developed by ourselves
and the vision system vision lsi is also
designed
intelligence is also done and the system
is also
done by mobile robot and also some
human controlled scooter systems
like the automobile and at last
about the end of the last century
[Music]
1996 or so
i started i realized
to start building human that is a very
good source
to integrate everything the vision
system
and manipulation mobility lag
and intelligence a communication
interface
and also the size
and the volume the weight is limited
within that limit everything must be
so therefore i think that is very
important shape
is something like the humans because
the human right is expected to use
the object which is
used for humans everyday life so
the site is almost same and also the
the size of the lord must be almost safe
because all the environment designed for
human
therefore to go through the narrow space
and so on
in such a way that strong limitation
is good to advance
the technologies and
that is also very successful because
i had a very good student and i had
i think
about 30 doctor student
about 30 doctor the student me 30 good
topics all the resulting so everything
must be integrated into
and professor inaba right now
he's one of the students he is a
software
and visual assistant person and he
continued
the keeping the system management and so
[Music]
in japanese information
system is system k is called
engineering information system
engineering
that is a very good topics for robotics
particular human it includes everything
so i i think in my history
of my laboratory everything is and also
important thing is all the
keyer is completely
white that means everything is designed
done programmed everything inside
the laboratory so
every detail somebody knows
we have never buy the black box things
of course computer will be right but the
risk
interpreter is also developed by
ourselves
in such a way so that is the
treasure of my jsk laboratory and that
is the
infrastructure of doing the intelligent
robot system
so if some new
devices is coming out we can easily
build in our system gradually
in such a way a robot system graduate
year by year student by student
and so
we have many resulting experiments
some people talk about the
this kind of in-house development or
building robots that are very specific
to the laboratory
is making sharing difficult between labs
sharing
of information what do you think about
that uh
yes maybe that is very
difficult to do one uh
laboratory right now but we started very
early every time we
walk or run at the front therefore we
have nothing
beforehand we have to make by ourselves
therefore we can do it but only i
as you pointed out right now the
road technology is measuring and so
you can get the systems for instance
some robot systems
and software systems are also so in such
a way
the common software must be used
and to using that infrastructure
including hardware system software
system
and to put his or her
invention and so on and putting
it into that infrastructure
he must create new system and so on
so in order to do the
freak and good system that is a
the most important thing for everybody
in the world
i think the real college approach is
also succeeding
but also in such a case as we pointed
out
a robot in robot case in computer system
in computer case computer is a cell
a company that a platform so they can
use
software and every day we can change it
but in robot case robot hardware must be
purchased but the real robot which
company said is not good enough
but i think it is very important to make
it's a really universal really
a valuable new flexible
hardware system as a research platform
is
needed therefore after
under simultaneously in university
we do by ourselves but in
a media cheese named maddie immediately
project i had been the project leader
of japanese human robot system since 19
about 10 years ago at that time point
is to build a
[Music]
platform research platform for the
tumult and develop
as a national project and
to put some
cooperating system on basic software
systems
and using that system will be
sent to the level
so therefore the robot system
even the human or if
about 10 years ago or less than 10 years
ago
without building humans
anybody can do human research
in experiment if they have money
beyond we have even we have money
we can take thereby
so the project was succeeded we had the
hiv too
right now hfo hrp4 succeeding either
singing and dancing together so that is
the source of the
project therefore in that time i
am doing
university research in the laboratory
this natural product
is different completely different
in other senses and my students mainly
do
jsk human system that is much more
advanced
the complete quality and this is
not transferable to other systems
because nobody can maintain
the systems just on the jsk maintain
but the human system hrp system can be
solved
i asked to cover the industry to serve
it
also in such a way a
human right and that kind of system
uh becomes the market so if
somebody has purchased it and
they have some in key technology deplete
something
in such a way they are doing
what are some of the other robotic
systems you developed in your lab before
developing the humanoids
so you have kind of the manipulator
manipulator
apparently right now the the storage
platform
parallel and usually this is the motor
is
arranged in serial way so this motor is
a heavy
so this motor must the parallel
manipulator
is like this
this kind of things the for holding
anyhow the arm several arm
is a corporate movie like this so in
such a way
that idea i got
when i was in mit in 1973
mommy means they wrote some essay about
paranormal
so in that case yes
i tried to make it
in sometimes so after return
moved to the university i started
and my student made it
and that is about more than 20 years
so when we first did then somebody will
do
follow then we will remove others
and also the vision systems relationship
particularly a vision research
researchers of businesses
like slices and so on is a
reason to read as their research
their precise decision and the
how complex regions of objects
can be represented at home but in robot
case
speed is important to
put the visual system in group therefore
real-time
visual system is needed therefore i
built the real-time vision system
to three a kind of division by of myself
tried the design after asked the company
they asked to build it
in developing i do not use money i
didn't
in my life in my university budget
i don't need so much budget so how do
you
is it you mentioned that students are
just interested so they kind of
contribute time um and what what about
how are students in japan funded are
they usually funded by the university
japanese students in graduate even
graduate students
they pay themselves but the things is
changing a little bit
so the
living and because they are studying
universities so
we need to prepare some salaries
but things are changing much decently
and so therefore they're coming
but of course we have to
prepare much more things for them
words for their self
support level that is the source of the
interest
and source of the uh intelligence with
the bathroom
the things we checked in prepare is that
kind of materials
and the environment and so on and the
student
and myself discussed and this is
interesting
in the shall we decide
[Music]
then they try it then in that case we
try
the prototype and they show
some company then their company
built it i think the
first prototype must be done within
university without
company if the result is
good then companies pay money and
make themselves and return back free
in such a way of course we will get
so the manipulator system and the
locomotion systems
and also the vision systems and the
computer uh
programming system everything was
developed
so in some sense i think
i actually do everything but
when i introduce myself i do everything
then most people consider doing
everything
is almost impossible therefore maybe
each of their results will be wrong
for doing everything but
in my mind each
component subsystem must be top ranking
and everything must be together so
that is my confidence and the source of
my confidence
is not myself because
the students very eager interesting
talented students gathered together
that is so i think it was very very
happy
very lucky and timely and
in that time universal token is a very
good
place because that is the source of the
very superpowers to
gather together and that is just
the way to show some interesting
topics for the small students
can evaluate
smart thing that is good or not
for their own sake
which kind of which company did you work
with
on some of these robots robot
roboto mostly i
designed and asked
not only decently the
kawada industry to build a
[Music]
earlier what other who else did you get
i was just curious
no no not interested in building them
especially not especially i i sometimes
i will find some ex a friend
i think it is interesting to do a lot
for doing
social
[Music]
dedicated to one place
but i think if i
show some prototype then
the company which who
which have pay attention to this that
will make
some profit or something not real money
profit
but a occasion and so on
[Music]
in my way of life
in management in university
that is purely university not
cooperating
companies not cooperating government
researchers
governing projects
why that is to keep any distraction
for students if we have some cooperation
with
their outside then we have to promise
something
that promise must be done by students
inside
therefore as long as possible as much as
possible
i want to be free
does the university of tokyo have some
general funds that they
just give for materials okay no no no
so not so much not much money is not
you know necessary
in my case generally speaking
money the much more
the more the better i don't think so
in research case money uh
that doesn't need a eighty percent of
needed
would be very good twenty percent
less that will be
recovered by our wisdom that's the
source we mentioned so
so in the are there any other um
other projects that you want to mention
that you did ah yes
in my research history mainly the
universal environment that is
almost the university is
the main purpose is education
education through research
the top part is to educate students
and educating students the student will
change
in the society but
i have to do something so in such a way
i also did some coordinated research for
japanese universities after i getting
a aged middle of 50 or so
that i think it is a role for
duty for us so the project leader
of the intel university research
research applied to the ministry and
owned about 100
laboratory inside
japan that is one way another way is the
natural project
like the humanoid and so on later on
i also contributed to some societies
that is in nine
20 or 5
25 we had the expo in nowhere
at that time a meeting meeting is also
the sponsor of the
expo therefore methi must
prepare some uh demonstration in that
tank
so therefore i also did the political
leader
for the expo or
event that is a very big one and
about more than 50 million
dollars and also it involves
about 50 universe in our studies
i asked to build the robot
and together assembled into the society
that thinking about the robotizing
society
in 20 years or something so
we shared some manipulation robot
service robot communication robot
and so on so that is also some
work which i did in such a way
so i think when doing the research
i like robot very much the thing
which i engaged in deciding
just on the robot i am very happy from
the
beginning of the day in 1965
until tomorrow today i
just only developed and gradually
it is the frontage
i think that is very very lucky for me i
was born
in very good year actually if i evolved
10 years later
that is 16 10 years earlier that is also
very good so i think very very bad
so i feel always
and therefore i i have to
return that everything in academia in
education
i am confident to educate
the students many many very good
students
in university research a inco or
coordinating university research with
the big university in the universe
project
and for industry i did the
national project for human rights and
for society
i also served to some extra and so on
i visited the expo
so maybe you joined yeah
yeah so did you do the robot house party
yes yes yes
the road house is from dinosaur robot
yes yes that is specially designed the
dinosaur robot
to the bike locomotion that is a human
technology transfer thing too and
at that time toyota is also doing about
it
i also suggested them to do so mostly
that
[Music]
expo is called the project
of export robot i think that is very
good
and another thing which i mentioned is
you know
mechatronics i was strongly committed
to invent the mechanics
in italy spectrum
some materials you can find
how mechatronics is born
that is just moving from electro
technical
laboratory to
[Music]
university it was late 1970
meeting is thinking about new industries
so that is the mechanical engineering
universe
and electric electronic literacy
to marry together so the electronic
controls machine
that kind of uh family
of the product will be
the very promising method considered
so so therefore they make
the new synthesized
mechanics plus electronics
so mechatronics
therefore at that time mati
asked me to study
or research to search
about
to define that nature and
where to go that is a report and that is
a
start of the concept
of academic and technological concept
of mechatronics and
that is one point i
am strongly involved in late
90s and also 20 years ago
i also reformed university department
this year is 20 years
i said i moved back in 1970 in
78 in that time when i determined
mechanical engineering is not so going
on
electrically engineering good but
mechanical study
but i did robotics and
robotics is a marriage of the world's
engineering so i think education for
mechanical engineers
is needed to put into electronics and
computer science
therefore the curriculum must
be completely changed
roughly speaking one side of the old
mechanical engineering
will be depressed and that one side
the electronics and the computer science
it must be
coming with so that is a little
different
from the classical traditional
mechanical engineering
yeah but we need this without this
education
jsk cannot be survived and also
without this education
our future of the japanese industry
and therefore we call it with our
colleagues
we decided to reform the conference
and make the curriculum course
towards
mechanics and so on at that time
we easily
can define find the word
[Music]
in japanese
system
so in japanese we can say the mechanical
and information engineering
but the word is no good but so
i find a good word good time
fortunate about that
she is my friend and she's staying
in our university for staying in my
house
for a week and so we are discussing we
are
doing that we are thinking about this
kind of a new department
a culture being like this and intending
to educate
their design in such a way but i cannot
find the right name
so how do you think about that
she thought for a long time and
she said how about meccano informatics
i got it then i made it the department
of mechanical information
i think that is a good time so
the meccano informatics is a
familiarity for the student a very good
student
coming and going so i think
i returned thinking
back for my life i was very very
happy in doing that my a
general experiment is up to
electro technology so up to 36 i think
after then through the educational
student
in the history through the university
in the university and industry and
workforce in such a way
many things can be done but i am not so
busy
because i am not doing so much i doing
one thing one thing so doing the
research just only don't
doing the education just on the
mechanical doing the
national project just only robotics
i am not involved in other robotics
simultaneously
but i think my duty
has almost been done in those
ways so it is a problem
what shall i do from now
i'm sure
too much freedom now right now
i retired university
in 2004 that is a strict
age event after that i was appointed as
the
inspector general of jsps
like the nasa nsf
and about six years i was there
and after that so for
about two years i am
adviser to the aisd
and i'm enjoying just as my advisor
does not never advise something advisors
is a very good place
to be advised for other people
so i enjoyed it much so i think
in this case in this important
usama asked me to cheer
beyond the writing session i think that
is a very good chance
and from many standpoint
so obama's ostp and
or in the second essentially europe and
japan and the united states and also
that kind of thing to think about to
make the good balance
is very good i think to
a little bit two step a step step
uh step not step down step out
but to step aside
the one step it makes
thinking very free
so we can see everything if i'm not
inside
i have to compete so in such a way i'm
enjoying very much
particularly israel is one
since the first one i have been in this
year
so i was very very happy to be involved
in
this what were some other important
conferences
and venues for you this is the best
to me and also the in japan
robotic society of japan and also
itemprey
aikra i think right now honestly
most of the robotics researchers in
japan
that is of course a global society of
members
but mainly that they are involved in
iterability robotics and automation so i
think
recently uh before i to be i think
the item institute of electric
engineering and electronics or something
like that
but now the ieee
no explanation so that is very good
not usa but
global so i think i can agree it's very
good
to think about it very good
so sometimes this is a diplomatic
so you mentioned that you worked a lot
with your students and in the beginning
with
shiraz what are who are some of the
other people that you've
worked with closely or had good you know
discussions with research relationships
with over your career
oh i come to many too many people
everybody's here
so i i count that
you kyoto university and he is
involved in hanapsa
that is the organizer of secondary
servers
another sense and i myself organized and
at that time
nakamura sensei is his assistant too
and after then he moved to the uh
santa barbara university and he is
working
oh i look over him from japan oh he's
doing very good
so we'll catch him up to university our
university
so he is now recovering robotics
[Music]
so how did in japan you mentioned when
you just started robots weren't
even something that people were
interested in or people were kind of
afraid
of doing that kind of work and now japan
is very very well known for robots
so i know it's hard but
could you kind of give a little bit of
an explanation of what helped change
that what were some of the
um i don't know japanese people likes
robots very much
i think that is the nature of asia not
only japan
that also the vietnam or thailand or
singaporean asian country people likes
things robot as a friend not opponent
but do you think that the government has
had um
because they have every now and then
these plans or
um funding pushes
for certain things um particularly for
the metis
meeting consider robotics or
mechatronics
is a very important and continuous
funding
and still continuing but as
increase is not now
instead obama declared
two months ago a new new policy
and checkshop is appointed as that
so in such a way a u.s
clearly declared that the robotics
is the new industry
of this century and to increase the job
society for them so that is right
and the content and the philosophy of
that is almost same to
japan so maybe from
our standpoint u.s is doing
almost same thing in much more
budget now and also in the eu
european commission is thinking about
framework 7
and free mark 8 and so on their correct
very much
some soft material with the agricultural
industry if we consider in industry
food industry and also the not the
engine of all night
harvesting the reflective thing is the
robot is a little bit changing
and the service road is interface with a
human
human is the most safety and the
flexibility
is needed so here is the traditional
industry and also the new service
industry
including some small industry
for family industry and so on the
collaboration
of robotic device plus a human
the hard work is done by human some of
the tedious work
is done in such a way we have to create
new job opportunities maybe obama
administrations
thinks about it and also the topics
will be going into the service industry
to support the popular population
degrees and japanese population
decreasing
and ethereum is increasing therefore
completely
we have to keep
the efficiency of the work
to keep otherwise we have to be we have
to care
by ourselves to me maybe safe
in my life not so long time you know but
within 50 years it is people is
decreasing
how much so i think travis robert
but i think to
do it the price must be going down
and therefore yesterday
did you see the logo or robo bridge
no the middle village person is
thinking about the internet to robotics
and so on
so the people population who is
committed to that technology robot is
small
application robot is a little bit larger
and then
application of much more robotic devices
and inter internet and much more so
the robotic robot and robotic device
would be a climb up this
so when it matches to the internet
then every robotic device
will be controlled by robot
in my brain humans will be spread
in morphology then moving to house
then the the inside of the room the
human right
in saturated software architecture and
the application article is the same
so the sun served interesting so also
that is also same
as he points out uh maybe a
gradually the support of service level
will be coming with them so that thing
is
two things one is to
move him or herself that is a
advanced mobility not just
so including the power suits mobility
that kind that is moving himself
that is also important for everybody
another is moving something this thing
or everything inside that is also
trouble
so service robot and so on in such a
case
this is what are some of the big
challenges
that robotics is going to be dealing
with in the next
10 20 years do you think to make these
machines possible
i think that is a compliance the
softness
the material must be soft the control
must be solved
like i pointed out at the assembly that
that just only this world that word
must be a interaction
between human and robot or machine must
be compliant
so when we move something in order to
keep
a object like this we make
this bad but in that category we must
make this then
moving efficiency become in order to do
that
the contact of this must be carefully
controlled and
this soft must be done so the
uh thinking about is manipulation
in that case this must be soft
not hard now if all this
part becomes soft the physics
becomes changing sometimes no physics is
needed
so so we have one last question
unless you have something to add that we
missed do you think we missed something
that you wanted to
have in the in this interview
no no okay i enjoyed so one last
question
this is for we want to have a small part
of the
site where um it's just kind of for
motivating
young students so the question is if you
had some advice
to give to young people who are
interested
keep dreaming keep dream to
create promising future
thank you thank you very much for your
time
okay is that okay yeah this is great
really good this is perfect
okay so i enjoyed the very much oh good
we hope so we don't want to make sure